Does this look safe? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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Question Does this look safe?

This is a PC-simulation model of a stagecoach. The coach offers excursion rides in modern times. Notice the coach is very close to a high cliff: about 50 feet high above the railroad tracks below. The only barrier is an ordinary barbed-wire fence that is used to keep wild animals from gong over the cliff.

If I were a company offering excursion stage rides I might have modern safety features:

1. fence posts along the cliff edge that are steel and are driven deep into the ground with wooden exterior coverings so the psts look like ordinary fence posts to the casual observer: I would have these constructed at my own expense at the person of the property owner my route was situated upon unless I owned the land myself UNLESS you feel it prudent to have a tall brick or stone wall along that dangerous cliff edge instead as a strong safety barrier

2. the passengers and driver would wear seat lap belts: they would be installed on the vehicle

3. there would be a system by which the coach brakes could be applied instantly in an emergency and release the horse team from the vehicle instantly as well: an emergency could be horses that spook out of control: I don't know if horses are stupid enough to run off a cliff, however

My excursion ride outfit would not have releases for people to sign: I would have a good insurance policy for liability and exercise sound safety measures.

What are some thoughts here for companies who offer rides to the public in nostalgic-looking horse-drawn vehicles in modern times in regards to customer safety?

http://i64.tinypic.com/2i0wwk.jpg
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post #2 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbailey View Post
This is a PC-simulation model of a stagecoach.

Think this is enough said....


Fake and a PC game experience... a simulator!


Wanting to keep as authentic as possible, you truly think in the times of stagecoach and horse drawn they had steel pilings and all those "safety" features?
....
jmo...
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post #3 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 07:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
Think this is enough said....


Fake and a PC game experience... a simulator!


Wanting to keep as authentic as possible, you truly think in the times of stagecoach and horse drawn they had steel pilings and all those "safety" features?
....
jmo...
No, but I want to simulate a modern-day stage ride service. Do you think the stagecoach rides at Knott's Berry Farm lack modern safety features?

I do know from watching cowboy films that some old coaches could be quickly disconnected from the horses to prevent a runaway. Pulling a pin or lever or something. People have been killed in carriage wrecks.
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post #4 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 07:15 AM
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In some things there is more danger in installing those safety features than leaving them off...
Ever been to Disney?
Ride their trams, the trains, their refurbished authentic looking horse-drawn vehicles or old cars, double-decker bus?
They have safety features you bet...
But none of them take away from the time period or are seen...


Seat belts on the driver and shot-gun rider...so dangerous to be strapped on and can't move.
Passengers tied in physically...heck no...
A reinforced frame and doors that latch closed and lock so not accidentally opened but pull a latch and out you go...
Safety features in abundance besides those obvious ones, but time period relative you keep in looks.
...
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post #5 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
In some things there is more danger in installing those safety features than leaving them off...
Ever been to Disney?
Ride their trams, the trains, their refurbished authentic looking horse-drawn vehicles or old cars, double-decker bus?
They have safety features you bet...
But none of them take away from the time period or are seen...


Seat belts on the driver and shot-gun rider...so dangerous to be strapped on and can't move.
Passengers tied in physically...heck no...
A reinforced frame and doors that latch closed and lock so not accidentally opened but pull a latch and out you go...
Safety features in abundance besides those obvious ones, but time period relative you keep in looks.
...

I've got it! A high (8 foot) masonry wall along the cliff edge!! The masonry makes it look old-fashioned. No way are the horses going to crash through a solid stone wall. Hopefully, they won't balk at going along side the wall.

Last edited by jonbailey; 10-29-2018 at 07:42 AM.
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post #6 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 08:43 AM
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You'd defeat the purpose of going on the ride. It isn't just about being in a stage coach or wagon but also the views that one would see. Choose a safer route. There are many wagon tours that go through mountainous areas and the only safety features that I have seen are low railings on dangerous curves same as highway driving. The liability waivers are there for a reason. Horse activities are inherently risky. A realistic interpretation would have a waiver. HLG hit all the other high points. The horses in a reliable business would be the been there and done that teams and drivers would not be careening around curves intentionally. You want a ride like that you go get on a roller coaster.
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post #7 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 08:47 AM
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You do know that seat belts prevent passengers from being thrown through the windshield in case of a collision...somehow I don't see a horse running you into a wall. Safety equipment has to be seen in context, that's why they don't have fire extinguishers next to a swimming pool.
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post #8 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QtrBel View Post
You'd defeat the purpose of going on the ride. It isn't just about being in a stage coach or wagon but also the views that one would see. Choose a safer route. There are many wagon tours that go through mountainous areas and the only safety features that I have seen are low railings on dangerous curves same as highway driving. The liability waivers are there for a reason. Horse activities are inherently risky. A realistic interpretation would have a waiver. HLG hit all the other high points. The horses in a reliable business would be the been there and done that teams and drivers would not be careening around curves intentionally. You want a ride like that you go get on a roller coaster.
Here is an improved high barrier system that provides good protection against accidental cliff falls with a good view over the cliff. I will never get on board any vehicle when a waiver of liability is demanded of me as a paying customer. I would never transport passengers with a waiver requirement out of good conscience. If I couldn't afford insurance, I would not operate such a business. The only time I signed a waiver was with a deer hunting guide but I had medical insurance and good sound gun training. Would you get onboard a commercial airliner where they presented you with a waiver to sign?

On my PC simulation, the simulated horses go around that turn by the cliff at only 4 mph. The software won't allow the simulated coach to travel any slower.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2gwx3yt.jpg

Last edited by jonbailey; 10-29-2018 at 09:26 AM.
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post #9 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 10:19 AM
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Here is another idea for possible barriers. I don't know if this would meet modern safety regulations, but it was common along highways in the mid 1900's when common sense had priority over protecting people from any possible injury. Simply place strategically spaced large rocks (boulders?) along the shoulder of the roadway.
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post #10 of 32 Old 10-29-2018, 10:38 AM
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You'd get laughed out of town for any of this stuff. A release of liability is a no brainer, the insurance co would insist you have one. As the various walls and such......no. The driver is a good enough driver to avoid going off the cliff, most horses wouldn't jump off the edge.

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