Does this look safe? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 12:00 AM
Showing
 
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Location: OK
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Here's my release:

This RELEASE OF LIABILITY is made and entered into on this date: , by and between Dreamcatcher Horse Ranch, LLC., hereinafter designated as OPERATOR and , hereinafter designated as PARTICIPANT, and if Participant is a minor, Participant's Parent or Guardian , in return for the use, today and on all future dates of the property, facilities and services of the Operator, the Participant, his heirs, assigns, and legal representatives, expressly agree to the following:




Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a livestock activity sponsor, a participant or livestock professional acting in good faith and pursuant to the standards of the livestock industry shall not be liable for injuries to any person engaged in livestock activities when such injuries result from the inherent risks of livestock activities.
Oklahoma Statutes as Section 50.3 of Title 76

Notice: This Waiver shall give notice to the Participant of the risks inherent in equine activities, including (1) the propensity of an equine to behave in dangerous ways which may result in injury to the Participant; (2) the inability to predict an equine's reaction to sound, movement, persons, or animals; and (3) hazards of surface or subsurface conditions.
















1. Participant agrees to assume ANY AND ALL RISKS INVOLVED IN OR ARISING FROM THE PARTICIPANT'S USE OF, OR PRESENCE UPON THE OPERATOR'S PROPERTY AND FACILITIES including, without limitation but not limited to, the risks of death, bodily injury, property damage, falls, kicks, bites, collisions with vehicles, horses or stationary objects, fire or explosion, the unavailability of medical care, or the negligence or deliberate act of another person.

2. Participant agrees to hold Operator and all of its successors, assigns, subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, directors, employees and agents completely harmless and not liable and release them from all liability whatsoever and AGREES NOT TO SUE them on account of or in connection with any claims, causes of action, injuries, damages, cost or expenses arising out of Participant's use or presence upon Operator's property and facilities, including without limitation, those based on death, bodily injury, property damage, including consequential damages, except if the damages are caused by the direct, willful and wanton negligence of the Operator.

3. Participant agrees to waive the protection afforded by any statute or law in any jurisdiction whose purpose, substance and/or effect is to provide that a general release shall not extend to claims, material or otherwise, which the person giving the release does not know or suspect to exist at the time of executing the release.

4. Participant agrees to indemnify and defend Operator against, and hold it harmless from, any and all claims, causes of action, damages, judgments, costs or expenses, including attorney's fees, which in any way arise from the Participant's use of or presence upon the Operator's property and facilities.

5. Participant agrees to abide by all of Operator's rules and regulations.

6. If Participant is using his horse, the horse shall be free from infection, contagious or transmissible disease. Operator reserves the right to refuse horse if not in proper health or is deemed dangerous or undesirable.











7. This contract is non-assignable and non-transferable and is made and entered into the State of Oklahoma and shall be enforced and interpreted under the laws of this state. Should any clause be in conflict with State Law, then that clause is null and void. When Operator and Participant and Participant's Parent or Guardian, if Participant is a minor, sign this contract, it will then be binding on both parties, subject to the above terms and conditions.



______________________________________________
Operator's Signature




_______________________________________________
Participant's Printed Name




_________________________________________________
Signature of Participant




___________________________________________
Signature of Parent or Guardian

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post #22 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 12:07 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians View Post
It actually can be considerably more dangerous. All those things you bring up don't involve an animal who is normally a prey animal being under someone else's control and then having the liver & lights scared out of it. When that happens, you need a release that says you're not liable unless you can prove the operator was grossly negligent.

I don't let anyone in my pasture with my horses, even though I KNOW they won't do anything stupid (the horses that is) unless a human does something stupid first but ..... if something scares one or startles one enough, anything can and does happen. My insurance co had me provide them with my release and then had me go over it with their underwriters and attorneys to tweak it so that it met all of my state's criteria. It doesn't mean I don't care and won't look out for my clients (if I let them get killed off though not caring, I'm not going to be very successful) and won't protect them with everything I can do to make sure everyone is safe, it just means that they understand that anything to do with horses is high risk and unless I am grossly negligent, I am not liable for an injury. I don't allow anyone to even handle one of my horses unless they're wearing a helmet, doesn't mean I don't still need a release.

Hi Dreamcatcher, I am not a business but I am afraid to let most people ride even my "safe" horses. That after a relative fell off (at a walk) and then complained about her back hurting. And someone you don't know......who knows what they would do if they got hurt.

I have learned just as you cannot always predict what a horse will do, you can't predict what a person will do either! I've seen people ride right under a tree limb and get knocked off the horse. And I'm thinking......gee, I never would have thought I would have to tell someone to steer the horse AROUND the tree. Who knew?

I would say the people are as unpredictable as the horses. It's not just the horse doing something dumb, but the people doing something dumb you have to worry about.
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post #23 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 12:25 AM
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PS. To the original poster, I think your stagecoach looks fairly safe. If the horses get spooked by the train, they should run AWAY from the cliff, not towards it. You might have more problems with them running the stagecoach into a tree.



Not long ago, in the Phoenix area, a Wells Fargo stagecoach had a bad accident in a parking lot. I think the stagecoach ran into some parked cars (because horses just panic and run and don't take the vehicle they are pulling into account).


I found a video of the incident:





Also, I think the barbed wire fence is best for keeping cattle in. Wild animals just go over it or through it.


The images you posted look very cool!
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post #24 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Boise, ID
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider View Post
PS. To the original poster, I think your stagecoach looks fairly safe. If the horses get spooked by the train, they should run AWAY from the cliff, not towards it. You might have more problems with them running the stagecoach into a tree.



Not long ago, in the Phoenix area, a Wells Fargo stagecoach had a bad accident in a parking lot. I think the stagecoach ran into some parked cars (because horses just panic and run and don't take the vehicle they are pulling into account).


I found a video of the incident:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpCWaizB0QE



Also, I think the barbed wire fence is best for keeping cattle in. Wild animals just go over it or through it.


The images you posted look very cool!
That coach should have a quick disconnect to release the team. The coach probably never had a routine brake inspection.
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post #25 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbailey View Post
That coach should have a quick disconnect to release the team. The coach probably never had a routine brake inspection.

That is a very unfair statement to make about maintenance...you don't know!!


I also don't think having a quick disconnect would accomplish much but now a double-poled team running loose...
Brakes or not, you still need to be able to steer your conveyance and you just lost that when you cut the team loose...
This video being what it is has a purposefully made coach for the sport it is used in...
Something sounds like you are trying to design...
Difference is is the one depicted is/was in operation where yours is sitting on a computer screen and no way to know the pitfalls of your design till you have it made and go for a considerable expense to go back to the drawing board...
Your ideas may seem great till practicality and does it work is applied...then the truth is told.
Good luck.
...
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post #26 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 08:18 AM
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Location: Colorado
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What a strange time we live in! A non horse person watches cowboy movies and thinks all the stunts are real. Sits down at a computer and makes a simulation based on no hands on knowledge. Then wants to use that as a basis for a business. But then doesn't want to involve waivers or any legal means to protect the business, the livestock and equipment, or the public.
Why not make it a virtual reality app? Too much Jurassic Park stuff for me.
I'm going to go hug my real life horse, this world just gets weirder every day.
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post #27 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
That is a very unfair statement to make about maintenance...you don't know!!


I also don't think having a quick disconnect would accomplish much but now a double-poled team running loose...
Brakes or not, you still need to be able to steer your conveyance and you just lost that when you cut the team loose...
This video being what it is has a purposefully made coach for the sport it is used in...
Something sounds like you are trying to design...
Difference is is the one depicted is/was in operation where yours is sitting on a computer screen and no way to know the pitfalls of your design till you have it made and go for a considerable expense to go back to the drawing board...
Your ideas may seem great till practicality and does it work is applied...then the truth is told.
Good luck.
...
I'm a former automobile mechanic by trade and I have some knowledge of wheeled vehicle theory. The mechanism to uncouple the tongue from the wagon could in theory trigger a device to lock the fifth wheel: the front axle pivot, so the vehicle does not weave at random. A single lever or pedal control that releases the horses could also instantly apply the emergency brake for the rear wheels. This should not be too hard to engineer. Horse-drawn carriages are very low speed in contrast to motor cars. They should not exceed 10 mph on the flats.
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post #28 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 08:46 AM
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I gotta be honest here: I think this is the point where I'm going to have to say good luck in your endeavor, I have coffee to drink. This thread has careened right off into Weirdville.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #29 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 09:27 AM
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I think you need to go back to understanding the dynamics of a horse-drawn vehicle where unhitching/hitching at the conveyance and pole is not easily done when moving, fact.
Comparing a vehicle like a car to one where it is controlled by horses with brains... 2 or 4 in-hand as stage-coaches are designed?

Have you ever driven, handled horses more than one at a time...
Have you ever driven a team of horses?
Where and at what speeds were you traveling?
Now add all that together to your designs in reality not on some computer screen is a far different animal...fact.
It is far different to sit astride a horse than to sit behind and control horses and carriage to do what you want...
What you see in old western films/TV series is often not real and or at the cost of the horses lives when filmed...



I am bowing out of this topic too....

...
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post #30 of 32 Old 10-30-2018, 09:51 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Palmer Lake CO
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Jon, you _did_ say Modern. What the heck; just bubble-wrap everything and be done with it :-P

(edit to add these fotos from last Friday. Note the lack of guardrails, etc.)
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Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado

Last edited by george the mule; 10-30-2018 at 10:06 AM.
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