Horse won't budge!! - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savvygirl559 View Post
And a carrot stick is not a whip! It is an extension of your arm. Horses have long bodies, we have tall bodies. The carrot stick symbolises our long body and the string represents our tail, it is not a whip!
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A horse doesn't think like a human,whip or carrot stick.. do you think THEY know the difference? My whip IS an extension of my body whenEVER I use it.
I don't know enough parelli to say whether or not you're doing it right, but if you read, especially blue's posts, you will see everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet here, ask, tell, demand. What is the difference to me 'hitting' my horse with a whip, and you'hitting' your horse with a 'carrot stick'?
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post #32 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 08:48 AM
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I never said there was a difference! I said there was a difference between a whip and a carrot stick?
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post #33 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by savvygirl559 View Post
I never said there was a difference! I said there was a difference between a whip and a carrot stick?
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But what is the difference of the end achievement? You're using this carrot stick of yours like I use a whip, for the same reasons- everything. I personally cannot see the difference between the two.
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post #34 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 09:15 AM
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Duffy, there is a slight difference. Carrot stick is basically a lot heavier than an ordinary whip, and the string lands softer on a horse than that of a whip for the same reason. Therefore, I find carrot sticks better for beginners, because they are too uncomfortable to be overused and to heavy to be moved fast (unless the user has strong hands), thus a horse isn't traumatised by unnecessary and heavy whip usage and it is quite good for young and easy to scare horses, too (in my experience).
For skilled people and experienced horses, however, I'd suggest a good whip or, as I prefer, a Honza stick (Honza Blaha, a chechz NH horseman) - a lighter and easier to use kind of "carrot stick". And in a better colour, too. :P

I have come a long way, to surrender my shadow to the shadow of my horse.
/James Wright/
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post #35 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 09:21 AM
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Duffy, there is a slight difference. Carrot stick is basically a lot heavier than an ordinary whip, and the string lands softer on a horse than that of a whip for the same reason. Therefore, I find carrot sticks better for beginners, because they are too uncomfortable to be overused and to heavy to be moved fast (unless the user has strong hands), thus a horse isn't traumatised by unnecessary and heavy whip usage and it is quite good for young and easy to scare horses, too (in my experience).
For skilled people and experienced horses, however, I'd suggest a good whip or, as I prefer, a Honza stick (Honza Blaha, a chechz NH horseman) - a lighter and easier to use kind of "carrot stick". And in a better colour, too. :P

But like you said, it depends on the hands that use them... a lunge whip can be gentle, a carrot stick can be harsh, but they're both used for the ultimate end goal.. or so Savvy says, I didn't think PP 'hits' his horses.. I thought it was all about asking

Many ways to skin a goose, but in the end, a carrot stick and a whip are much of a muchness.. different colours, different weights, but they're still the same thing. I can use my whip as lightly, or as heavily as I like or need to... what I'm trying to say is Parelli isn't the be all and end all, and where I'm not an expert in the matter, I don't understand why people use the term 'carrot stick' to make it sound cute and cuddly when it principle its a whip.

Also ref the hitting, Savvy said the aim, I think in another thread or this one, is NOT to scare our horses.. the first time you whack with that whip, carrot stick etc when you have asked, told, DEMAND of course the horse is going to have a moment to itself, and hopefully not do it again.
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post #36 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 09:34 AM
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Pat parelli named it a carrot stick because (his words not mine, I think its pretty silly) 'some people are carrot people, who try to bribe their horses, and some people are stick people who whip their horses into doing something. We use a carrot stick for a perfect balance imbetween'. I think that that is stupid, many people have a perfect balance and their horses are fine without using a carrot stick! And Duffy, I don't know if you are understanding everything we are saying? Parelli is not all about asking, it is about getting your horse to trust you by being a herd leader. We are doing what the herd leader would do to the horse to make it do something, that is why it is calle natural horsemanship because it is as natural as it gets!

A Horseman Can Hear His Horse Shout,
A Good Horseman Can Hear His Horse Talk,
But A Great Horseman Can Hear His Horse Whisper<3
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post #37 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 09:35 AM
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Agree. I still call my carrot stick a whip (because carrot stick just sounds so long and silly), and I prefer using a lightweight whip, if possible. A whip is a whip, no matter, how it is called. I mostly use it as a reminder - my first cues come from energy and body, and then I tap him with the whip as if saying "Hey, I'm here, remember what you have to do!".

And hitting is hitting, no matter if a carrot stick or a traditional whip is used. Then it has gone outside the borders of good horsemanship, NH or no NH.

I also think, that you can't get the horse to trust you. Trust comes with building relationships and respect, through sensible training, through reading the horse, not wanting it to read the human automatically. But this is what many misunderstand, when they take up PP's method.

I have come a long way, to surrender my shadow to the shadow of my horse.
/James Wright/

Last edited by Saranda; 01-04-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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post #38 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 09:40 AM
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I agree with that completely and that is exactly what I do!

A Horseman Can Hear His Horse Shout,
A Good Horseman Can Hear His Horse Talk,
But A Great Horseman Can Hear His Horse Whisper<3
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post #39 of 48 Old 01-04-2012, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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i prefer monty roberts techniques. Sensible techniques

99% of the time, its the riders fault.
Flicka 13yo Haflinger Mare.
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post #40 of 48 Old 01-06-2012, 03:19 AM
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And getting a horse to stand on an upturned bucket is natural?

I have said myself that I use a modified version of Parelli but a lot of the crap he does and gets his followers to do is just pointless. And - have you seen the videos online of him basically abusing some of the horses he's worked with? He can and does lose control. Those videos are what ruined my faith in him. Catwalk in particular. And one particular horse "trainer" I know who broke a friend's gelding's tooth... using PP methods.

Be fanatical all you like, NO ONE METHOD works for every horse. Just because you've never come across a horse it doesn't work for, doesn't mean it works for every horse. How many horses have you worked with in your life? I guarantee you will find one horse that makes you question everything you've ever learned. When? Who knows? But it will happen, and suddenly your blind faith in all things Parelli will be more of a case of "oh, he's good, but this other way works better for this horse". I had a horse that there was NO WAY you could do ANYTHING Parelli-related with. Monty Roberts worked much better for him. I use a combination of many different horsemanship mentalities but the strongest lesson through ALL of them is to increase the pressure until you get what you want, and then instantly release. It's not natural horsemanship. I despise that tag. I resent the Parelli tag too. What I do is just plain old horsemanship, and it works. I have never seen pure PP methods actually work, EVER.

And yes, I have physically booted my horses in the guts - both of them - to get them out of my space. PP would say I'm cruel and abusive, but the proof is in the pudding and I have two respectful, trusting horses, even at feed time.

MAKORA THOROUGHBRED SPORTHORSES
they/them

Last edited by blue eyed pony; 01-06-2012 at 03:24 AM.
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