One rein stop confusion good or bad? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 47 Old 03-29-2012, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
...In all my years of riding, almost every horse I've ever rode that bolted was lacking in his basic training to begin with. If you teach them a good solid stop from the start, then a ORS as defined by NH gurus shouldn't be needed...
After 3 1/2 years of bolts with Mia, I hired a trainer. After 4 sessions, she was worried that Mia might never be safe, because she reacted oddly. On session 5, she concluded that Mia had never been broke to ride, or taught to respond to a bit.

The implication was that instead of having a very spooky horse, I had one that tried very hard to make things work even tho she didn't understand. So her training started over at the very beginning. It took two months of ground work to get her to where the trainer thought she would be safe to mount. A few days later, I started riding her again.

I'm not saying she will never bolt again, but the odds seem to have gone way down. We're trying to teach her confidence, and that if things get scary, stop! Rode her today around the block and out into the desert. There was another horse, but Mia opened up about a 100-150 yard gap, so it was the closest we've come to riding out by ourselves. We aren't 'there' yet, but it looks likely that this summer will include a lot of riding by ourselves out in the desert.

However, I still believe in having as many tricks as possible in your bag of skill. For military flying, I was taught we all start off with a bag of luck and an empty bag of skill. Our bag of luck cannot be refilled, and we never know how much we start off with. When things go wrong, you can reach into your bag of luck, or your bag of skill...but if you reach one time too often into your bag of luck, you will come up empty - and SCREWED. So the goal is to fill up the bag of skill BEFORE your bag of luck runs out, and then rely on the bag of skill...

I want my bag of skill to include as many ideas as possible on how to handle a bolting, freaking horse. Training may prevent a bolt, but I may not be on a well-trained horse. After all, Mia was supposed to be great for a beginning rider!

But if someone tells me they HAVE a bolting horse, my first reaction will be to ask how much training she has. Both horse AND rider!

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
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post #22 of 47 Old 03-29-2012, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bsms View Post

I was taught we all start off with a bag of luck and an empty bag of skill. Our bag of luck cannot be refilled, and we never know how much we start off with. When things go wrong, you can reach into your bag of luck, or your bag of skill...but if you reach one time too often into your bag of luck, you will come up empty - and SCREWED. So the goal is to fill up the bag of skill BEFORE your bag of luck runs out, and then rely on the bag of skill...

This is fantastic!! What a great way of summing up riding horses.
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You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #23 of 47 Old 03-29-2012, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much everyone for sharing your opinions and thoughts. It looks like everyone has their own variation of the ORS, what works best for them and their horse. I'm definitely not saying it shouldn't be done or used, I think that people need to use what works best for themselves and their horses. I'm kind of like an information sponge, I want to soak up all the information I can get my hands on, you never know what you may learn that could make a huge difference!

I think that I will keep on with what works for me. It isn't a ORS, but if a horse that I ride starts into a bucking fit, for example, I will take up a stronger contact with one rein, it is kind of a very strong elastic resistant feeling and then I will give squeezes like squeezing out a sponge if that doesn't quite do the trick I will bring my elbow back ever so slightly and, but still keep that elastic feeling with the horses mouth, it is NOT pulling it is a strong elastic resisting feeling, and of course most importantly keep a strong deep and secure seat looking up and forwards to where I want to go and stay determined in what it is I want to accomplish. I already described how I deal with a horse that takes off in the question about bolting thread. I can usually "hold" the horse until I can get it back under control if there is no room to start a large turn or circle, but if it is safe to start the turn or circle I do so and this usually brings them back under control. Maybe I've just been lucky so far! I will keep everyone's ideas in mind, thank you again for sharing, and if anyone else has something more to add, please do so, I would love to hear about it!
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post #24 of 47 Old 03-29-2012, 10:41 PM
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I guess to sum up my experience, its a great tool for use when retraining horses, working with very green horses and horses with a very strong flight response. If you teach it correctly, the horse realizes that a rider sitting deep in the saddle(like how you would ask for a stop just using your seat), and pulling the rein to their hip = disengage hindquarters, come to a stop and calm down, not bend neck=stop.

It should be there as an e-brake. Just because you have a great car that is well maintained doesn't mean you would tell the manufacturer to leave out the emergency brake because you were sure you wouldn't need it. Likely you could drive that car for ten years and never have to use it, but you would be really thankful if you ever were in a situation that required it.
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post #25 of 47 Old 03-29-2012, 11:17 PM
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I've been lucky I have never ridden a true runaway horse or actually needed a one-rein stop. I've been pretty blessed I guess!

When my horses spook, they bolt maybe 10 feet and then I am able to bring them back under control either by pulling back on the reins or neck reining them in a circle. I sometimes have my reins so slack that neck reining is all I can do, because I don't have enough slack taken up to actually pull straight back. Yeah, I ride pretty loose!

That actually happened to me yesterday. We were riding past a house and a dog ran out from somewhere and neither me and my horse saw it ahead of time. She spooked and ran maybe 12 feet and I spun her in a circle with one rein because I was riding two handed and dropped the other rein! So in effect I spun her to a stop, but that is just sort of the way it worked out. I have never trained for a one-rein stop or tried to employ it on purpose. I guess I am more worried about keeping my seat and bringing the horse under control then worrying about HOW I will stop the horse.

I do have a friend who is always flexing her horses heads side to side while riding in a straight line. She is pretty sure I should do it too and she has more horse training experience than me, but I don't like the idea of the head going to the side while the body goes straight. I want the body to follow the head, know what I mean?

I've watched some NH gurus training students to do the one-rein-stop on TV. It looks really bizarre and I am not so sure you couldn't just throw a horse off balance and cause it to fall if you did that at speed.

I guess I've just never had a need for it (knock on wood).

Now I DO believe in disengaging the hindquarters on a jiggy horse. I will pull them around in figure-eights and such. But I'm not bringing them to a stop, just trying to bring their focus back on me.

But I'm not going to worry about a one-rein-stop unless I find I have need for it. My guys will just neck rein in a circle if they bolt and catch me off-guard.
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post #26 of 47 Old 03-29-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
I do have a friend who is always flexing her horses heads side to side while riding in a straight line

EEK!! please don't do this. With few exceptions I beleive a horses head should be conected to its feet. having ridden a horse that learned that its head and feet were not connected, I would never teach my horse this. She(my cousins mare) decided to run home in a thunder storm. At various points in the uncontrolled gallop I had her nose touching her chest and both of my legs, while running flat out in a straight line.
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post #27 of 47 Old 03-29-2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueSpark View Post
EEK!! please don't do this. With few exceptions I beleive a horses head should be conected to its feet. having ridden a horse that learned that its head and feet were not connected, I would never teach my horse this. She(my cousins mare) decided to run home in a thunder storm. At various points in the uncontrolled gallop I had her nose touching her chest and both of my legs, while running flat out in a straight line.
I don't think it's a good idea either! I guess she feels it makes them "soft." I think she may have seen a big name trainer doing this, but I don't want to say with 100% certainty. I *think* it might be Clinton Anderson that does this?

Flexing their heads around is all well and good. I will sometimes do that when they are standing still. Or if I am asking them to disengage the hindquarters. But I don't think I want my horse going down the trail walking a straight line with their head flexed to my knee. She does this.
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post #28 of 47 Old 03-30-2012, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Eolith View Post
It's always been an emergency measure for me. I probably don't do a "formal" one rein stop when I do it either, but if my horse is about to take off or is popping a few bucks etc, I shorten one rein, pull them around and disengage that hind end quick as I can. As soon as the threat of insanity is over, I give back their head and resume business as usual.

I honestly don't know how else I'd be able to save my booty from some nasty falls or accidents if I didn't do this. I'd be interested to know how those who don't utilize a one rein stop respond to a horse having a meltdown. Sure, you can say "MY" horse is trained better than that and any horse ought to be trained better than that, but when the sh*t hits the fan and you have a horse going berserk under you, how on earth do you regain control of the situation?
Ride them forward - get their mind on what the task at hand is.
Hate one rein stops, would never do it.

Had one young one working behind two other young ones this morning and during our canter lap, she shoved her head down between her knees and tried to have a go. You just kick them forward. If i had tried a one rein stop she would have been sepearted from her mates and made things so much worst, plus getting on that filly mouths results in her going up.
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post #29 of 47 Old 03-30-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs View Post

In all my years of riding, almost every horse I've ever rode that bolted was lacking in his basic training to begin with. If you teach them a good solid stop from the start, then a ORS as defined by NH gurus shouldn't be needed. Over the years, I've only ever had 2 horses fly into a straight blind panic where no amount of training could have prevented them from running off.



In my experience, I've found horses taught the ORS have had crappy turns and need leg aids to initiate the turn. Horses without the ORS have good turns and it only needs a light rein aid to start the turn. Keeps things very simple for the horse- lateral rein aid means turn the forelegs, leg behind the girth means turn the hind legs. Horse never has to guess what I am asking for (neck flexion or turn forelegs?). Training a light, relaxed and immediate stop without bending the neck gives the tools for a bolt stop in all but the most extreme circumstances. A good bolt stop from two reins has less chance of hauling the horse over in a really sticky situation.

Have seen it used well on some kids ponies, esp the real tiny riders, so am not totally against it, but think smrobs is spot on.

Last edited by corymbia; 03-30-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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post #30 of 47 Old 03-30-2012, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Boldstart, I completely agree, get them moving forwards out of a bucking fit is the first and most important thing to do. I always keep my legs on to get them going forward when I feel a buck coming on. Sometimes if they continue going forwards while still bucking and with their head down between their knees, I will take up a stronger contact with one rein to try and get them to think about bringing it back up again. I'm a quiet rider, I like to leave my horses alone so when I do have something to "say" they "listen" because they are not dull and tuned out because they aren't nagged all the time, it also keeps them relaxed. I can usually accomplish a lot very softly and quietly with my horses.

My youngest ottb had a bad reputation at the track for bucking and kicking out and throwing a tantrum. He was an extremely difficult horse when I got him. He had serious issues. His very first reaction to things he either a) didn't agree with or b) startled him from behind would be to kick out and then maybe start into bucking and then maybe throwing himself around in a fit, so if this happened while leading him it was like flying a horse kite! It probably wasn't the smartest thing for me to take him on, but he has turned in to a very nice horse, he is one of my favourite horse of all time now. He really tries for me now and will look to me before even thinking about starting anything, this is huge for this horse. He was extremely reactive before. With him I think a bit of it was dominance, but also there was that quick almost instinctive/defensive reaction thing he had going on, react first by kicking out before thinking. He now thinks first and usually doesn't follow through with anything any more. If he does get a bit full of himself or on his adrenaline or whatever now, you can really see that he tries hard for me and tries to contain himself and I can usually keep it from escalating. He has been teaching me a lot!

As for the ORS, I really don't feel a need to teach it to my horses, I think so far I've done ok without it.
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