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Riding is not a real sport vent, part deux

20K views 133 replies 49 participants last post by  Acadianartist 
#1 ·
I met with my daughter's phys ed teacher last week for parent-teacher meetings. Very much a jock type, he said she is doing well, but he had some concerns about her "training plan". See, each student has to put together a training plan this year. They set goals that are aligned with a sport they practice. She chose riding, of course. He told me that it doesn't count because it has to have at least 15 minutes of cardio per session, and that in riding, the horse does all the work. Yep, he said that. TO. MY. FACE.

I asked if he had ridden before and he said yes. I asked what height he was jumping. He explained that he had done some trail riding while on vacation. I explained to him that what my daughter -- a competitive show hunter/ jumper who has 8 years of experience riding -- does is quite different. A lesson consist of about 10 minutes warm-up, 30-40 minutes of trot/canter/jump work, then 10 minutes of cool down, and that when she trots, she posts, which means up-down-up-down non-stop for longer than I can go without being out of breath (ok, I'm not in the greatest of shapes, but I'm not terribly out of shape either). He did not appear to believe me and insisted that it was all in the leg, and that it was muscular, not aerobic, since all you have to do is follow the motion of the horse.

So today, my daughter gave him a Christmas card containing a gift certificate for one riding lesson with my daughter's coach at one of her own lessons. I chatted with the coach before arranging it and explained to her why I wanted a beginner to do a lesson in an advanced group (we do not expect him to be able to keep up, but he needs to know how it feels). She agreed (with a big smile on her face) and said worse comes to worse, she'll put him on a lunge line at a trot for 15 minutes on each side. Obviously we don't want anyone to get hurt, but I felt that this is the only way I will convince him. I'm not even doing it just for my daughter, but for every girl who was ever told her sport is not a real sport because "the horse does all the work".

I can't wait to see it!
 
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#35 ·
Yes, we would like to take video, however, it will have to be with his permission. My daughter was excited about it and said she couldn't wait to share it on social media. I told her she is not allowed to do anything of the sort without his explicit permission. We'll be sure to ask BEFORE the ride though, when he still thinks he is going to rock it. Because afterwards, he might feel a little differently!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

While embarrassing him would certainly be tempting, what I really want to achieve is to educate him so that the next time he has a young equestrian in his class, he doesn't belittle her without knowing the first thing about what she does. This is the best way to have an impact, I think. It's not right to destroy young girls' self-confidence over and over again in these types of classes. I won't tolerate it for my daughter.

That said, if he's a little embarrassed, I might find that just a little bit vindicating.:D

On a different note, the school must be really looking forward to my kids graduating so they don't have to deal with me anymore!
 
#39 ·
That's the thing I like about my system. Much like what I used on my children when they were little and thought there was nothing but fun to camping (they had to learn about hiking in, setting up camp, digging fire pit, breaking camp...and you can't just go home if you get scared...and I always make the first one scary ****).

He rides the 22 miles to a place I can camp with water 50 yards away (a friend owns the land). When he gets there and is dealing with sore muscles he can't just say "ok, had enough, let's go home". Doesn't work that way. You're 22 miles from home. No time to ride back that day. Have to sleep overnight and then ride back the next day (sore muscles and all) since you can't just leave the horse (he can lead it back while he walks if he wants....the horse won't mind and it might help him work out the stiff muscles LOL). If he's too tough to throw in the towel and head home (and wants to prove riding is not work) then my next spot is sort of in the direction of home, but about a 30 mile ride to another field with a water pump about 200 yards from where we'll stay the night (he gets the joy of hauling water for his horse in both places and horses drink a lot LOL). The horses are very familiar with these places and the routine since it's where I did their final training for camping. Now day three is an easy day. We're just over 11 miles from home so it's a nice 8 mile trot so we can get home sooner (we'll walk the last 3 miles....I always walk the last 3 miles no matter what). After those 3 days, if he can walk normal for 200 yards and tell me that riding is not work, then I'll conceded. ****.
 
#37 ·
I read an article put together by a girl in a similar situation and she wore a heart rate monitor. Ended up indicating that it was aerobic and was good to go. In HS I wrote off PE credits in my riding and manual labor at the barn. My advisor was a rider and the PE teacher was pretty clear thinking when I explained what I did every day.

I hope your PE teacher loves his lesson and then gets excited about helping your daughter do some cross training to improve her riding. I'm told it helps, but no matter how many books I've read I've never been able to stick to it for more than a week.
 
#40 ·
By a strict definition a great many things might qualify as sports since to be a sport it only required physical exertion and skill (by definition). Then we have to decide what defines "exertion". If hitting a golf ball qualifies as "exertion" then I suppose someone could argue that some video games meet the requirement of being a "sport" since there can be a lot of physical action with a mouse, control pad, joy stick, even keyboard typing LOL. Baling hay is absolutely a sport. For that matter so is tying your shoe ****. Just have to make a competition out of it.
 
#45 ·
I think this is a good, balanced response in addition to the article posted above:

"So getting back to the original question, is dressage riding, or any riding, considered cardio or aerobic? As you can guess, it depends. Walking is considered an aerobic activity. However, you can amble down the street or you can walk vigorously uphill—the first is unlikely to be aerobic; the second is very likely to be aerobic. Similarly, the exercise you get while riding depends upon what you are doing. Hacking out on trails at a walk is unlikely to be aerobic. Focused training at trot and canter is likely to be aerobic."

https://dressagetoday.com/rider-wellness/experts-27291
 
#46 ·
Let me just add that riding isn't the only thing us equestrians do for exercise, & she should also tell her instructor this.
Lifting bags of feed, bales of hay, heck, even scooping manure...those things can be a workout in themselves! :lol: Even grooming. :) So it's not just in the saddle. Also I'm pretty sure posting at the trot is plenty.
 
#48 ·
He told me that it doesn't count because it has to have at least 15 minutes of cardio per session, and that in riding, the horse does all the work. Yep, he said that. TO. MY. FACE.

He did not appear to believe me and insisted that it was all in the leg, and that it was muscular, not aerobic, since all you have to do is follow the motion of the horse.
Of course, this is not jumping like what your daughter does, but feel free to share this picture with him if it helps explain your cause. Because clearly .... I'm just sitting there following the motion of the horse using legs only...... (I would have been out the back door had I not been using my WHOLE BODY to balance on my horse and cue him.... and why I'm sometimes out of breath after a run! HAHA I mean, you can easily see the tensed muscles in both my arms and my neck! )

People just don't know what they don't know..... I'm very much looking forward to hearing how his ride went!




By a strict definition a great many things might qualify as sports since to be a sport it only required physical exertion and skill (by definition). Then we have to decide what defines "exertion". If hitting a golf ball qualifies as "exertion" then I suppose someone could argue that some video games meet the requirement of being a "sport" since there can be a lot of physical action with a mouse, control pad, joy stick, even keyboard typing LOL. Baling hay is absolutely a sport. For that matter so is tying your shoe ****. Just have to make a competition out of it.
To confuse things further, now schools are having E-sports where students are on the "sports" team for gaming...... food for thought anyway!


He's right about that part. My typical pulse rate jogging is 140-150. Any higher is too exhausting. Lower is too easy. "In systems that use five heart rate zones, the aerobic zone is zone 3, from 70% to 80% of your maximum heart rate. It is a heart rate where you can sustain exercise effort for a long period of time and get the benefit of improving your cardiovascular endurance."

That doesn't mean riding horses isn't EXERCISE, but it is NOT generally AEROBIC exercise, pushing the heart and lungs.
That might be YOUR definition of aerobic exercise but it is not THE definition of aerobic exercise.



Taking about the "aerobic zone" is the not the same thing as talking about aerobic exercise.


You also do not do the same type of riding as OP's daughter does.

But what the instructor is looking for is a sustained time of stress on the heart and lungs.
And you know that how?

But if he is trying to get her to cross-train for better overall fitness, he's right!
Possibly. Of course, varied physical exercise is always good for your body; no doubt about that. However, what I am gathering from the original post from the OP is that the instructor simply does not think that riding requires any effort whatsoever and therefore OP's daughter cannot use riding for her training plan. Riding is indeed physical exercise and IMO should qualify as a valid training plan for her class homework requirement. That's what this whole discussion boils down to -- that the teacher is not allowing OP's daughter to use riding for her school project.
 
#51 ·
I'm impressed @SueC! Because I'm reasonably fit, but I can't post all day long. I have jogged, can throw hay all day long, shovel out stalls every day, do yoga and pilates, but yes, I get a workout at a lesson with my daughter's coach. Not at home, heck no. Not even when I did the 7 hour ride in Italy (and we trotted, cantered and even galloped some). However, an hour with my daughter's coach is most definitely a workout for me right alongside doing pilates. I do find posting on lesson horses tiring even though like you, I try to only rise minimally. It's easier on some horses than others. The slow ones are the worst because the coach doesn't tolerate slow so you have to get that horse moving faster and that means using seat, legs, and core at the very least. Even on Rusty, if I'm just doing ring work, I have to press with my legs at every down part of the posting trot to keep him going with good momentum (sometimes the coach comes to us and we do lessons at home). So yeah, I'm out of breath.

Are there more intense cardiovascular exercises out there? Of course. That doesn't mean an intense training lesson at trot/canter isn't cardiovascular though. And yeah, those eventing people are nuts. I think that the problem is that riding can go from leisurely to very intense so unless the teacher can see for himself exactly what my daughter is doing, then he won't get it.
 
#52 ·
#53 ·
Man, @Acadianartist, I can't jog, I just don't have the technique - I get stitches, and feel miserable, and part of it might be my build - extremely long femurs, and slightly inward-facing kneecaps, and slightly clicky hips. Nothing kills me more than trying to jog. I do better trying to run (like a duck) on a soft surface, like sand, and do it as fast as I can for as long as I can, and then back to a walk until the oxygen debt has been paid off and I'm not snorting and wheezing like a warthog with emphysema.

One thing I'm very good at is fast walking, but because that's not enough to get where I want to with fitness, I look for gradients, and we do mountains regularly (please note: Australian mountains are not tall by world standards), and this helps the general fitness. Also we did a lot of cycling when we lived in town, and we're trying to get back into that now we've settled into a routine on our farm.

I was the kid who barely passed PE. I was all skeleton and no muscles to control it until I was 14, and I have terrible hand-eye coordination, and I don't like running after balls. But horse-riding just gelled with me, and was one activity I was actually good at compared to other people - unlike school sports.

The posting thing, yeah, I would say the horses I ride have much to do with how easy I find it. Not only are they smooth, I never have to encourage them to go faster - I suggest it, and they're like, "Oh goody!!!" :)

And yes, in case that wasn't clear, it was never the intention to suggest anyone was claiming there weren't more intense workouts than serious horse-riding / horse-care. :racing: But I do think the PE teacher is way off the mark to suggest serious riding isn't serious exercise, because it's a lot more demanding physically than a lot of official "sports" on the curriculum.

By the way, I think jumping is a bigger workout than flat riding, because more adjustments need to be made to go with the horse over obstacles and through tight turns!
 
#55 ·
I do think taking a lesson is much more strenuous than trail riding.
With my mare I could go out and trot often close to an extended trot and keep it up for long distances and maybe some cantering (when I was younger would trot for miles) and not be short of breath. But taking a lesson on a 17H+ part draft horse could have me winded and begging for a rest (Teacher we have to stop for a bit as horsey needs a break).
It was hard work and I would have to take a break at least twice in an hour lesson whereas I could ride for more than a hour travelling fairly fast out on the trails.

I hope he takes the lesson and you keep us informed.
 
#56 ·
So today, my daughter gave him a Christmas card containing a gift certificate for one riding lesson with my daughter's coach at one of her own lessons. I chatted with the coach before arranging it and explained to her why I wanted a beginner to do a lesson in an advanced group (we do not expect him to be able to keep up, but he needs to know how it feels). She agreed (with a big smile on her face) and said worse comes to worse, she'll put him on a lunge line at a trot for 15 minutes on each side. Obviously we don't want anyone to get hurt, but I felt that this is the only way I will convince him. I'm not even doing it just for my daughter, but for every girl who was ever told her sport is not a real sport because "the horse does all the work".

I can't wait to see it!
I am laughing out loud here. This is AMAZING! What a perfect "gift" -- for your daughter!!!
 
#57 ·
Since I believe in honesty over ego, I'll post this:

Abstract

Oxygen consumption (VO2), ventilation (V E) and heart rate (HR) were studied in five recreational riders with a portable oxygen analyser (K2 Cosmed, Rome) telemetric system, during two different experimental riding sessions. The first one was a dressage session in which the rider successively rode four different horses at a walk, trot and canter. The second one was a jumping training session. Each rider rode two horses, one known and one unknown.

The physiological parameters were measured during warm up at a canter in suspension and when jumping an isolated obstacle at a trot and canter. This session was concluded by a jumping course with 12 obstacles.

The data show a progressive increase in VO2 during the dressage session from a mean value of 0.70min [mean (SD)] at a walk, to 1.47min at a trot, and 1.9 (0.3)min at a canter. During the jumping session, rider VO2 was 2(0.33)min with a mean HR of 155 beats· min during canter in suspension, obstacle trot and obstacle canter. The jumping course significantly enhanced VO2 and HR up to mean values of 2.40 (0.35)min and 176beats/min, respectively.

The comparison among horses and riders during the dressage session shows differences in energy expenditure according to the horse for the same rider and between riders. During the jumping session, there was no statistical difference between riders riding known and unknown horses. In conclusion these data confirm that riding induces a significant increase in energy expenditure. During jumping, a mean value of 75% VO2max was reached. Therefore, a good aerobic capacity seems to be a factor determining riding performance in competitions. Regular riding practice and additional physical training are recommended to enhance the physical fitness of competitive riders.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s004210000207
That said, if the instructor wanted 15 minutes non-stop, do jumpers keep repeating a 12 obstacle course for 15 minutes without a break?

I took my pulse at intervals jogging today. 130-140 was typical. When it hit 150, I needed to pause. When it was back to 130, I was ready to run again. To the extent aerobic fitness helps a rider jumping, then perhaps your daughter would do BETTER if she did some running as well.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Since I believe in honesty over ego, I'll post this:



That said, if the instructor wanted 15 minutes non-stop, do jumpers keep repeating a 12 obstacle course for 15 minutes without a break?

I took my pulse at intervals jogging today. 130-140 was typical. When it hit 150, I needed to pause. When it was back to 130, I was ready to run again. To the extent aerobic fitness helps a rider jumping, then perhaps your daughter would do BETTER if she did some running as well.
I notice it says right at the outset that these are recreational riders. I don't think it's the same for a competitive rider. I consider myself a recreational rider, but my daughter is definitely in the competitive range.

And as for jumping for 15 minutes straight, I think you're thinking of jumping at shows. They're a piece of cake compared to the prep work that goes into it - like most other sports. She might only do 12 obstacles at a show (although to be fair, she enters about 6 classes at each show), but a lesson is entirely different. This is something you'd know if you had ridden at this level, which is exactly why I purchased a lesson for her PE teacher. Preparing for shows requires much more energy expenditure and they do ride over jumps for much longer than they would at a show. For example, they would do gymnastics - 6 jumps in a row getting progressively higher, with only one stride between jumps, then canter around and do it again. And again. And again. For the better part of 30-40 minutes.

But I would reiterate that you don't need to jump for 15 minutes straight, only keep your cardio high enough to be getting a good workout. I would suggest that is doable at a strong trot on a lesson horse who requires you to work hard just to keep him going.

Incidentally, my daughter is currently riding her coach's large show jumper (her personal show horse) at lessons. We don't like to trailer Harley in the winter, and my daughter needs to jump higher than Harley can go for her rider levels. This horse is a lot bigger (16h and massive build) and while he has a lot of momentum, he requires a very active rider to keep him focused and collected so he can jump efficiently.

Of course the PE teacher will likely end up on one of the quieter lesson horses, but that also means he'll have to work really hard to keep the horse going.
 
#63 ·
I can't wait to hear all about the PE teacher's lesson!!!

My first lesson with an FEI instructor, at a time when I was young and very fit (as was my horse) After 45 minutes of intense riding, I literally dismounted and slumped to the ground! What a workout...and she gave my horse a couple of walk breaks...but had to be a real marching walk too :rofl:

We were so fit, I could ride canter for an hour at home...20 meter circles, counter canter, extended and collected...no problem.

An intense lesson is a whole different experience! To anyone who has never had one...well just trust us; it is a tough workout and yes makes the competition feel almost easy. If it wasn't for the intense stress
 
#64 ·
An intense lesson is a whole different experience! To anyone who has never had one...well just trust us; it is a tough workout and yes makes the competition feel almost easy. If it wasn't for the intense stress
THIS!!! You can't possibly understand if you haven't experienced it. That's why it was the only way for the Phys Ed teacher to understand. Clearly, no amount of explaining is the same.
 
#68 ·
I just remembered something relevant to this thread. One year when I was in high school, I was in the best shape I'd ever been because I was working my butt off at two different stables and riding different horses at least a few times every day. When PE started at school, which was a mandatory crossfit class, during the first week we were doing some sort of exercise rotation and the PE teacher suddenly got HEATED. He was yelling at the school's top football players because I, the "little quiet 5'2" girl," was doing burpees faster than them. :rofl:
 
#69 ·
In my younger days I was a very fit rider, I could and did ride 50m in one day and other times a lot of distance riding of 15 to 30m in a day. I wore the shoes right off my horse, he had to have new ones every trimming.

I took a lesson and in it we had to do a posting trot, no stirrups, I thought "this will be easy for me". I felt no effects but when we dismounted I landed on my feet and just kept going into a puddle on the ground, my legs could not support me. That was a real surprise for me.

In my 70's now and I will not even attempt this, even tho' I can still do a posting trot for miles (with stirrups)
 
#72 ·
When is the lesson scheduled? I'm looking forward to reading about how it went.

I honestly don't see how he could get the same workout that the kids get just from his lack of experience and not being able to do the same things that they do. I hope that you all get good and creative.
 
#78 ·
Yes, I am concerned about this. But that's also why I want him to ride with my daughter. I think the best thing to do is have a lesson with just the two of them (my daughter usually rides with a large group of riders at her level, but I think it would be too hard for the coach to focus on a beginner and a group of advanced riders literally running circles around him). While we figure he won't be able to do everything, at the very least, the coach will keep him trotting for a good long time as my daughter trots and canters beside him. Since he'll be on a lunge line, she can work on the other end of the arena so he can still see her. He won't be able to do the things she does, and safetey remains a priority if course, but even if he just gets a little taste of how hard it is while my daughter is making it look easy beside him, he might appreciate just how much effort riders have to expend at these lessons.

He hasn't scheduled the lesson yet. I'm not sure he realizes they ride all winter outside. They were out today, jumping since the footing was good, though it was a raw, blustery day. I told my daughter to ask him where he was when she sees him tomorrow morning :)
 
#82 ·
Maybe we have moved past this, but I just now caught up on the thread.

From what I have studied about exercise, some seem to be confusing cardio and aerobic and anaerobic exercise.

Basically aerobic is synonymous with cardiovascular exercise. This can be at any level from a brisk walk to running. It will result in improved cardiovascular conditioning, and that will mean anything from being able to walk up a flight of stairs without getting out of breath to being able to run six miles or a marathon. So it is mostly measured by your own body: if it increases your respiratory rate and heart rate for an extended period of time, it is cardiovascular/aerobic exercise.

A person can be able to sing and talk while doing aerobic exercise, or completely breathless. That depends more on your fitness level than whether the activity is aerobic or not. For some people, walking briskly will get their heart and respiratory rate up as high as another person jogging. Understand that some people can carry on full conversations or sing songs while running 8 minute miles. Others can barely talk when walking.

This is different from what some are describing, which is anaerobic exercise. Anaerobic exercise involves quick bursts of energy and "anaerobic" means it generates an oxygen debt. This is exercise you cannot sustain for long periods of time. Lactic acid can only be removed when oxygen is present, which is one reason why anaerobic activity is self-limiting.

Horseback riding can be aerobic or anaerobic exercise. Anaerobic exercise includes things like sprinting and weight lifting, which you cannot sustain for a long period of time but will end up doing repetitions. For most of us riding is aerobic, most of the time. For some, very low level aerobic. Some are not improving their fitness level any more than if they went for a mile walk.

I have experienced hard core anaerobic exercise on horseback. I've had horses pulling forward on the reins at the canter or gallop where my arms were sustaining muscle tension that would be the equivalent of holding up heavy weights, and had lactic acid build until I was shaking with exertion. I've had horses galloping very fast for ten minutes while I was in two point, and the muscle tension necessary to stay on the horse was similar also to doing a squat for ten minutes. That is anaerobic exercise.

Posting or cantering is usually more of a mid-level aerobic exercise. Some of it may depend on if you need to use your arms as large muscle groups along with your legs. If your heart rate does not get high enough on some horses, you might not be able to substitute it for a run, but I have often done hour long beach rides with tons of trotting, cantering and galloping in two point that were the equivalent of an hour long run, and if I substituted the ride for a run as an equivalent workout, my fitness level would maintain.

Here is my friend doing some anaerobic exercise - her horse is galloping between 40 and 50 mph (per GPS)

Here she is doing mid-level aerobic exercise, with the muscles in her arms and legs working with every canter stride, which we often would canter for fifteen minutes at a time. Notice her arms.

It is interesting to me that usually if a horse is doing aerobic exercise, the rider is also, and if the horse is doing anaerobic exercise, the rider often is too.
 
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