Rollkur....Please elaborate - Page 8 - The Horse Forum
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post #71 of 87 Old 01-26-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by waresbear View Post
I dunno, but again, if you want to be the best of the best, there is gonna be stuff you're gonna have to do with a horse to get there. This seems to be the nasty one in dressage.
That and using an allen key to tighten nosebands nowadays. The girls aren't allowed to do the nosebands up as they can't get it as tight as the guys.

Across the board things need to change, not just dressage.

if your horse is opening it's mouth, it's from too much pressure from the hands.
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post #72 of 87 Old 01-26-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BCtazzie View Post
That and using an allen key to tighten nosebands nowadays. The girls aren't allowed to do the nosebands up as they can't get it as tight as the guys.
That's really messed up..

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #73 of 87 Old 01-28-2012, 01:10 PM
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I treat the words headset and frame like curse words. I finally have my mare to the point where she does have the head down and pretty arched neck, and it kills me because my hunter trainer calls it a frame (we do dressage & hunters)...and in some ways, I suppose she IS in a "frame", but she is first and foremost moving forward into my hands, soft and bending properly. It's not just where her head is at, it's what her hind end is doing and how that is affecting how she carries herself on the front too.

Rollkur...well, I can see where it might be useful as a stretch - as in a take and release thing to loosen up the neck muscles. But I don't agree with it where it is held and the horse worked in that way to teach "headset".

There's a difference in a "headset" and being accepting of the bit and working into it. It's really not that fine of a line either...

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post #74 of 87 Old 01-29-2012, 02:35 AM
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A 'frame' is not a bad thing - it is the head set that irks me.

We use the word frame to describe how the horse is carrying itself. So a 3 year old, should be travelling in an open, loose frame. As opposed to the seasoned FEI horse at a competition that would be travelling in a shorter, more 'together' and 'up' frame. Frame does not have to mean that you have jammed the horse's head in.

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post #75 of 87 Old 01-29-2012, 04:43 AM
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Sorry but I have to address that barrel racing thing, my pride won't let me look over it so you can ignore me if you really want to, just kinda had a bad day as far as some new riders at the barn now hating me because I'm a barrel racer when they've never actually seen me run.


Only time stingray pins her ears is on the run home. And that's not even pinning. That's "Oh there's wind in my ears maybe if I swivel them back a little ways I'll be able to hear something besides the whistling of the air..."


ANYWAY, sorry....

I have zero problem bringing my horses head to their chest for approximately .2 seconds if I feel it absolutely has to happen. But since that has really only been necessary for me once in a lifetime of hell freezing over, I don't think I caused long term permanent damage to the horses spinal chord and neck muscles?

However, I do NOT like the head-to-chest-for-a-gazillion-hours-a-day. I don't even like riding my gelding in a german martingale because he immediately will throw his head to his chest without me even touching him. Not sure why because he'll root his little nose out all the way in any other type of martingale and that little string is on the loosest I can make it when I DO put it on him (Which I don't anymore because of that)

This thread has educated me a bit more on what is really going on here. That blue tongue video made me want to throw up. If I'm going to ride with contact I want my horses on the vertical or riding low and round, not biting their own chests.

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #76 of 87 Old 01-29-2012, 02:49 PM
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Ok now my time for a pet peeve rant from me then- and its about the blue tongue video.

Does anyone actually know the backstory on the horse? Has anyone actually cared to find out? The horse plays with its bits, constantly. This is not an uncommon thing. Another not uncommon thing is for horses with active mouths to get their tongues over the bit. Again, not uncommon is for the tongue to then stick out of the mouth. Finally, another not uncommon thing that happens to horses who get their tongues over bits is for the tongue to lose circulation. So, rider notices horses tongue is over the bit, what does he do but reach down, put the tongue back in and encourage the horse to take it back under the bits. I fail to see how that constitutes abuse, or makes it alright to chastise the poor guy. He has received death threats over that video. Give me an effing break... that happens to horses all over the world, rolkur or not.

Peoples idiotic responses to stuff like that makes me want to throw up.
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Last edited by ~*~anebel~*~; 01-29-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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post #77 of 87 Old 01-29-2012, 03:02 PM
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Anebel, I posted that video here in response to DuffyDucks queery about how the 'rolkur' debate got so hyped up. Anky was the first that really got the ball rolling in the media, and the blue tongue video was another that got every man and his dog jumping up and down about 'rolkur'. There is no debating that this video caused a rolkur induced sensation for a long period of time.

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post #78 of 87 Old 01-29-2012, 03:10 PM
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I'm not so much irritated by the fact that the tongue is blue and sticking out then the headset itself....

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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post #79 of 87 Old 01-29-2012, 03:14 PM
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I was posting in response to miss barrel racer informing us all about how little we know about barrel racing, and apparently Dressage as well if the "blue tongue video" doesn't make us want to go off to the ladies room and stick our fingers down our throats.

Did the video cause a sensation? Yes.
Was it warranted? In my opinion and that of some "higher ups" - No. Which was obviously illustrated by the FEI and their response, which served mainly to quell the media and employ an artist to draw more diagrams for the rule book.

People see something, don't think about it and then flip out. It's like high voltage power lines, communities flip when the nice swath of land behind them, that is there because its been zoned for power lines prior to the community existing, starts getting developed. They while about electro magnetic waves and want the lines buried without learning that dirt does not stop EM waves and by burying them you are bringing them down out of 100 meters in the sky to 1 meter under the dirt and the EM waves that much closer to your house.

It's the same kind of thing, although less damaging to your health if some guy in Germany feels the need to ride his horse LDR.
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Last edited by ~*~anebel~*~; 01-29-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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post #80 of 87 Old 01-29-2012, 03:36 PM
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Easy Anebel, I'm not saying you don't know anything. You know a great deal more than me about dressage. I know very little. However, I do know a bit about training and competing with barrel horses. I would say the same thing about a video of a barrel racer or a reiner riding in a rollkur with their tongues out and blue.

I'm not saying at all that the blue tongue is what alarmed me. I do find it kinda gross but I also think its gross when my horse gets green slime all over my show helmet. Perhaps you think my "throwing up" analogy was too much, maybe it is. I'm just saying that I don't like it. I don't like the headset, I don't like the blue tongue. It's not saying I absolutely hate all dressage riders and no horse ever sticks their tongue out or loses circulation unles they are in rollkur. I actually have a lot of respect for you and all other dressage riders, anebel. I do not like being talked down to however.

Pssh.I didn't pick up the wrong lead
It's called a counter canter...
...A very advanced maneuver.
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