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Tips on keeping lower leg tight?

4K views 38 replies 12 participants last post by  lhpyeqjmkxqhbczmif 
#1 ·
I’ve been having a lot of trouble keeping my lower leg tight. I move my leg back and forth. I know that no stirrups and maybe two point helps. My instructor recommended that I do 5-10 minutes of no stirrups at the trot and canter every time I ride which I’ve been doing. My problem is that my lower leg still moves back and forth when I’m doing no stirrups. Is this normal and will go away if I keep doing no stirrups? Is there any other exercises I can do that are better or is no stirrups the best way to deal with this? Thanks!
 
#2 ·
What worked for me was really sitting on my butt so I could feel each seat bone if I push down, shoulders back, heavy elbows, and let my legs relax. I figured that out from the no stirrups thing.
 
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#3 ·
I've found that spending a minute or so in two-point, really thinking about getting my heels down, tends to help my lower legs stabilize.
 
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#4 ·
Are your stirrups the right length? Is it only at the trot that you have this issue or at the canter as well?
 
#5 ·
When I ride without stirrups, my coach actually wants my lower leg LOOSE! Ha. Although not loose in a swing forward and back way, but just in a... not holding tension way.

When you do ride with stirrups, though, one thing that I find helps is to think of the weight sinking down into the front of my knees whenever I rise in rising trot. Keeps the energy going to the right place to keep everything more stable.
 
#6 ·
@waresbear thanks, now that I think about it I don’t really do those things so I’ll need to focus on them. @ACinATX I’ll give that a try and I’ll do it with no hands because I read that it’s better to stabilize the leg. @farmpony84 They are the right length and they definitely don’t need to be shorter but I’ll check to make sure next time. It’s pretty much only at the posting trot and once I’ve been riding for like 20 minutes it seems to get a little better. @SteadyOn so I guess we’re working on opposite things haha. So would it be more of a squeeze more in with my knees or more of my thighs? Or is it putting more weight in my knees? My knees are normally slightly outwards but not like sticking out.
 
#8 ·
@SteadyOn so I guess we’re working on opposite things haha. So would it be more of a squeeze more in with my knees or more of my thighs? Or is it putting more weight in my knees? My knees are normally slightly outwards but not like sticking out.
You don't have to squeeze in with your knees at all. Think about keeping them down and back, as much as you comfortably can without forcing them. And when you rise in rising trot, think of your knees pointing at the ground, almost like you're kneeling down to do some gardening or something. You don't really have to DO anything with them, their position doesn't really have to change, but thinking of your weight dropping down through your knees as you rise just seems to somehow keep things in a better place.
 
#7 ·
I'm thinking maybe you are standing in your stirrups at the post. You might want to make sure your heel is aligned with your hip - It could be that your legs are too far forward so you are off balance (in a chair seat). That would make it hard to keep your legs steady if that is the case.
 
#10 ·
If your center of gravity is above your stirrups, they won't move. They cannot move forward or back if your center of gravity is above the stirrup. Two point is how you practice that. To be more precise: STANDING IN THE STIRRUPS. At a walk. At a trot. At a canter. In turns and in speed transitions.

Do NOT grip with the knees. Gripping with the knees creates a pivot point. Nor does a steady leg come from grip at all. It comes from being balanced over your stirrups.

This means you can do two point with a somewhat loose leg, letting the weight flow - uninterrupted by your knee and thigh - into your stirrups. When you post, you won't need to thrust your hips/body forward. You just UNFOLD your body because your body is always centered above your stirrups. The friction of your thighs and calves will be enough to hold you without requiring squeezing - IF your weight is centered above the stirrups.

...The principles of the seat advocated herein remain the same for all types of riding. There are only minor variations in the length of the stirrup-straps, and in the resulting change in the forward inclination of the body. It will be found that the shorter the stirrup becomes, the more the body must be inclined to the front to remain in perfect balance, and thus minimize interference with the horse's efforts. ...

...In hacking, since the distances ridden are usually not great, and the time on the horse's back is short, the stirrups may be adjusted primarily to suit the rider's comfort. They should be fairly long. In breaking and training a young horse, there is a marked advantage in having the stirrups quite long, since the rider's legs are then well down around his mount, where they may be employed strongly as aids in teaching the lessons at hand, and also wrapped about him to provide security of seat in case the youngster bucks or violently plays up. No matter what the length of the stirrup is, the body is always inclined to the front; slightly with long stirrups, and progressively farther as the stirrups become shorter...

...it may be said that the seat to be described is an exceedingly simple and natural one. In fact, most children, as soon as they have gained a little confidence on a horse's back, assume the correct posture instinctively, Unfortunately, their natural tendencies are often ruined under the tutelage of the ignorant grooms and unqualified riding teachers abounding in this country...

Stirrups and Legs

...For hacking and normal training of the horse, when he is not to be schooled in jumping, the rule for the length of the stirrup straps is as follows: Being seated as described above, with the legs hanging down in a natural position by the horse's sides and the feet out of the stirrups, the treads of the stirrups should hang even with the center of the large bones on the inner sides of the ankle joints. This is a general rule...

...For the beginner, it is well to have the stirrups a little on the long side, rather than too short, as this permits, and almost forces the rider to work the thighs and knees well down around the horse, and thus overcome the usual instinctive tendency to raise the knees, which makes the seat unstable and weakens the grip of the knee and calves. It is the ability to grip with the calves of the legs, and to a much lesser extent with the knees and thighs, that provides the strength of seat through which a good rider stays with his horse when difficulties, such as shying, plunging, stumbling, bucking or jumping arise. No matter how much the stirrups are shortened, it must be understood that the stirrup-straps, when the seat is correct, always remain vertical, and that as a result of shorter stirrups, the knees, though raised, go very little farther to the front....as the stirrups are shortened, the seat and buttocks are necessarily pushed farther back on the cantle. This demands more forward inclination of the body from the hips...

- Harry Chamberlin, Riding & Schooling Horses
Cavalry Manual Test:

How to Test Correctness of Rider's Position: If the rider is in balance as a result of his upper body's being properly inclined forward, he is able at the walk, trot or gallop, WITHOUT FIRST LEANING FARTHER FORWARD and without pulling on the reins, to stand in his stirrups with all his weight in his depressed heels.

In executing this exercise the seat is raised just clear of the saddle by stiffening the knees but keep them partly flexed. The upper body REMAINS inclined forward at the hips. At the trot on hand should touch the horse's neck LIGHTLY to assist in remaining in balance. At the walk or gallop [canter] the rider, if his seat is correct, should be able to stand in his stirrups without the aid of his hand. A rider, who can execute the above exercise at all gaits and without first changing inclination, is in balance and never "behind his horse". The majority of those NOT in this position partly maintain their balance by hanging on to the reins, thus unnecessarily punishing their horses' mouths as well as their backs."
 
#11 ·
So I still am struggling a lot, just as much as before. I’ve been doing no stirrups every time for 5 min (I can’t do it any longer yet) and my instructor has me do it a lot more at the canter in my lessons than I do on my own. When I do no stirrups, my legs just move even more, I don’t even know how but it’s so frustrating. I put my stirrups up one hole because they seemed a bit longer than my ankle and it didn’t make it worse or better. When I do two point, my legs seem better but as soon as I sit back down, hey go back to normal. Any advice on how to fix this? I have a video of me doing no stirrups from a couple months ago if that would help, but I’m not sure how to upload a video, only a picture. Also thought I’d say, when I squeeze, my legs go up. I’m not sure why this any of this is happening, my instructor has always loved my leg position and even used it for examples until a few months ago. She reckons it’s because my legs have gotten longer so I guess that’s why.

It’s fine if nobody answers this part because it’s unrelated and I’m going to ask in my next lesson but I figured I might as well ask. Betty hates cantering for the first time. After she’s cantered once she’s absolutely fine. What she does is refuses to go for about half way around the outdoor arena. When I tap her (not like I’m hitting her hard or anything, just tapping her lightly) with my crop, she slows down and pins her ears and if I do it again she mini bucks. Once she gets going, she’s fine. If I don’t use my crop, she doesn’t buck but the problem is it takes a long time for her to canter and my instructor even says she knows exactly what I’m asking. It’s not a dangerous buck or anything, just a mini one and I can sit it just fine, it’s just annoying especially because now I’m doing no stirrups, if my legs are tired and I ask her to canter and she does buck if I use the crop, I don’t know if I could stay on We’ve tried spurs (tiny, 1/4 inch long) but she hates those so my instructor (and me but I’m inexperienced so...) doesn’t want me to use them. My instructor says to tap her when she won’t go but she just slows down so I’m not sure that’s working... Any advise? Again, I’m asking in my next lesson, just figured I’d ask.
 
#12 ·
Ok. So my thought on your legs moving....

I think you are chair seated still. If they are better at two point but go right back to moving when you go to post then my guess is when you are in two point you have a good leg position. When you go back to your seat I'm guessing you are flat on your bottom and your legs are sliding forward.

My thought on your canter is either she isn't warmed up enough because she's stiff and has to work her way into the canter OR (more likely) you don't have her "awake" enough to canter. I have this issue with my own horse. We'll go and go and go with a trot session but then I'll walk a while before I go into the canter and he'll have a lazy way of going. I have to push him into forward movement before I ask for the canter or it's sloppy. You may be in an easy ho-hum walk or trot when you ask her to canter.
 
#13 ·
@farmpony84 ok, meaning my leg is too far forward? Below, I’ll attach some screenshots of the video (I know you can’t see very well from a picture but at least to see if something is drastically wrong). You can see my legs are all scrunched up since I had to squeeze her so much. I know my toes were way too far out but I was really focusing on her not spooking since she was “spooking” (later found out it was just her testing me, which she seems to love to do since she was fine for other riders multiple time. Whenever she did it, my instructor had me tap her with the crop and she has been fine).

For the cantering, that could be the case. I definitely think she’s warmed up enough, I give her at the very least 10 min to warm up at the walk and trot, normally closer to 15 and if it’s really cold, a few minutes longer. I try to get her listening to my leg by doing lots of walk-trot transitions and if she doesn’t respond right away, I tap her with the crop until she responds and then release all pressure right away. I do (random) transitions with the canter once she’s warmed up but it’s normally the first time she does it and after transitions, she responds a lot better. It’s worse if we are in the indoor which is small if that helps. I’ll make sure she’s in a forward trot/walk before asking next time.
 

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#14 ·
Cross your stirrups in front of your saddle when you're doing no stirrups work. It may not seem like a big thing, but I personally cannot cope with having the stirrups just dangling there. My legs get very tense and I try to avoid the stirrup irons clanging into me or into the horse, no matter how hard I try to just relax. Your legs looks shorter without the stirrups, when they should definitely look longer. Cross those stirrups in front of the saddle, sit deep, and relaaaaaaax. Enjoy the freedom of having nothing down there. And to open at the hip, think about weights being attached to your ankles and dragging behind you onto the ground. Let your leg drop down and back from the hip as those weights get "dragged," while keeping your core engaged so that your body is still upright and the stretch is just in your hip joint.

Edit: here's how to cross them, in case you haven't done it before. Soooo much more comfortable!!
 
#15 ·
@SteadyOn , thanks! Yeah my legs get all tense and scrunch up. I will try to relax because I feel like that’s half the problem. I really like the way you explained how to let my leg go long. It’s sometimes hard in my lessons with my instructor telling me legs tight and down because when I try to tighten my legs, they tense and when they tense they get shorter and when they get shorter, it gets harder to make them tight so it’s great to have a different way of thinking about it. I’ll have to try crossing my stirrups and thanks for the video since I’ve never done it before.
 
#16 ·
Agree with @bsms. Your legs should not be tight, and your foot kept under your center of gravity.

In the photo it looks like your leg is wrapping around the horse. Meaning, you are flexing sideways at the knee and ankle so the sides of leg and foot touch the horse.

That is not stable. The sole of your foot/base of stirrup should sit as though you are standing on the ground. This means your lower leg will leave contact with the horse's body about 2/3 down the calf, depending on how round the horse is. On a narrower horse the leg will wrap more.

Once your leg is stable under you and your foot flat like it is on the ground, you only move your leg back to cue the horse and then after the cue it returns to normal position. Many dressage riders show this well.

However, a "still" leg will move up and down with the horse's gaits. If your leg does not slide up and down as the horse trots or canters, you are too tense.
 
#18 ·
The overall feeling I get is that your horse isn't easy off the leg and that your leg is tensing as you try to keep her moving. A tense leg will swing. I get a feeling that if you manage to correct the forwardness in your horse, your leg will become quiet. I am not sure how to achieve it but I got the best results in riding once I got my mare to listen to my seat for forward and only use my legs for bending. I think that I got the main part of this training through doing cone work (cone "gates" in a 2x20m circles formation - make a transition at each gate - stop, trot immediately, walk, trot, stop...).

Does this happen with every saddle you use? Some saddles just don't match my build and I get random body parts out of whack. Luckily, my leg is usually solid so I know it's the saddle doing it.

Can you try riding in a dressage saddle? Mind you, they are even more difficult to fit :/
 
#19 ·
@gottatrot so basically my leg shouldn’t be tight? That looks right in the picture (of course I don’t really know much). Ok I’ll try standing in the stirrups. @Horsef yes she doesn’t move off my leg very well. What I do is lots of transitions between the gaits and if she doesn’t respond within a second or 2, I give her a tap. This works well for her but some days she’s just lazy so it’s harder.
Edit: I don’t have my own saddle yet because I don’t need one yet and my parents don’t want to pay for it but Betty is getting a new saddle that fits her better so possibly that saddle might also fit me better, even if it’s not fitted for me.
 
#20 ·
So today I rode and tried to do what you guys suggested and it somewhat worked. It felt way better and my leg didn’t move forward and back, it still moved but not like it did before. Just seemed to wiggle (not sure really what to call it) rather than move back and forth. How do I fix this, if I need to? I could really feel the difference with me not trying to wrap my legs around compared to trying to do that. I just let my leg go where it naturally went which wasn’t wrapped around her and it felt way more comfortable. I’ll stop talking now haha. Anyways, thanks so much!
 
#22 ·
@Horsef I’d say my legs move more than hers but just a little. But of course I can’t really tell from being in the saddle. I guess we’ll see what the instructor says in my next lesson. I think that why this is happening is since my leg has gotten longer, like as long if not slightly longer than her stomach so before I’ve never had to think about my leg before.
 
#23 ·
I’m so frustrated! I’ve been working at this for 2 weeks and I still can’t do more than 5 min of no stirrups. Why is this? I’ve been doing it every day for 5 min and I can’t even do that sometimes. Even today at my lesson, my instructor had me pick up my stirrups sooner than 5 min because it looked like I was in pain (which I was). Soccer started back up so when I go to horse riding, I’ve already had school all day and soccer for 2 hours so I’m exhausted. Either way, I’ve been riding awful lately and I feel like me and Betty’s bond is gone. She literally greets me with pinned ears. Why is this? She refuses to respond to pressure. For example, when I push on her to move her over, she used to respond with hardly any pressure. Now she braces against it and pins her ears. Any suggestions for that? Has anybody else been through a time where you were riding awfully and it feels like your horse hates you? How did you get back on track? I’m crying right now because I miss the bond me and Betty used to have. How do I make her respect and like me again?

For the cantering thing, my instructor said that she’s doing the opposite of what the crop is asking her to do (I feel like all of this is related...). So when she did it today, my instructor told me to tap her again. She of course mini bucked again. Then she told me to do it again and she was fine and started cantering. I know I need to do that on my own but I get not really nervous but kind of.
 
#24 ·
You are trying too hard. I wish we could see what you are doing. I think you are definitely trying to hard though. Stop thinking about it. Just close your eyes and trot around the arena. Let your body feel the horse.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is not mine but it could be what's up with her:

"The most commonly used phrase for anyone involved with horses come October 'he's a bit fresh.....' what the freak? A bit fresh evokes distant memories of the Spring and watching little lambs frolicking about in the field. That is a bit fresh.

Yet we all use the exact phrase to describe our horses when they're being complete putz. For most of this year I've passed a lady, riding her serene looking horse, in a snaffle, on the buckle around the lanes. She's smiling, horse is chilled.

This last week, the same lady is looking as ruffled as a hens bum in a hurricane, shes clutching on for dear death to a horse that's got every single vein popping, a bit in its gob that'll make the pony patters ring PETA, taking off as each wayward acorn falls off the tree and shes shouting apologetically 'sorry he's a bit fresh' as cars attempt to pass this utter....

All year Ru has been that chilled I've contemplated growing my balls, getting physio for my knee and pushing for our 2034 Badminton debut...

Ru tonight, face planted me straight in the hay. Because of a stupid squirrel. Half a tonne of horse, freaking over a squirrel. That half a tonne of meat then done several laps of the field squealing and fly bucking. Over a squirrel. My neighbour says 'ooh he's a bit fresh'...be fresh dog meat if he keeps on I said.

My friend attempted a dressage test at the weekend. We had working gallop, rapid half pass over the flower pot and off we freak out of the area over an oak leaf...her response 'went a little wrong...he's a bit fresh '...

Welcome to the season of chiffney bits, pelhams, broken dreams, tears, hay in your knickers (HOW) and muscle rub winter is already upon us. Enjoy."
 
#26 · (Edited by Moderator)
"Yet we all use the exact phrase to describe our horses when they're being complete fools."

Bandit and I don't always see eye to eye, but he's never an obscenity. A horse may be "fresh" - just need to burn off some energy. A horse may be afraid. But I haven't met a horse (in my admittedly limited experience) who is dishonest.

If we as riders cannot ride out a horse who is "fresh", or a horse who is afraid, then what does that say about riding instruction? What does it say about our "position" or how we balance/move with the horse? And what does it say about our riding philosophy if all we are train to do is ride a submissive horse?

There are riding styles MEANT for riding a very well trained, submissive horse. There are riding styles MEANT to help a horse max perform, where the difference between winning and finishing 5th is the difference between performing at 100% and performing at 99.7% But those styles are NOT meant to be used with riding a horse who isn't highly trained. Riding a horse who spooks is quite different from performing a dressage test, and we ought to be taught from the beginning how to do so. UNDERSTANDING WHY a horse spooks or feels nervous and how to respond ought to be high on the list of things to learn and our riding style ought to START with how to stay on when things get "fresh". Because that is normal horse.

"I still can’t do more than 5 min of no stirrups. Why is this?" - @Bettythepony

Because it is harder to ride no stirrups. That is why stirrups were invented. And in many cases, riding no stirrups creates harmful habit patterns. When I do it, I tend to squeeze more with my legs to reduce my weight coming down directly on my butt - and squeezing with the legs is bad riding.

It seemed to me in 1933, when this book appeared (and I haven't changed my mind since), that if the rider's position depended primarily on firmly fixed knees then he was greatly hampered in the use of his legs. For, as long as a strong use of the legs releases the wedging of the knees, it would seem that the rider's position would be weakened every time he had to control the horse forcibly. Of course, on perfectly schooled horses, such moments may occur very rarely and don't have to be considered seriously; but a perfectly schooled horse is far from being a general case in this world, at least today.

I am also against gripping strongly with knees alone because as a result of abrupt movements of the horse which the rider has not been able to follow rhythmically he often loses his position by pivoting on the knees, usually landing on the horse's neck or beyond. All of us have seen this happen to such riders during unexpected refusals or irregular take-offs for the jump. Obviously, gripping with the lower thighs, knees and upper calves is stronger than with the knees alone.

Furthermore, a strongly fixed knee interferes with the flow of the weight into the stirrups and stiffens the knee joints, thus greatly diminishing the amount of spring in the rider's body. This spring, which is rarely mentioned by other schools of forward riding is to me a very important element in a good, effortless forward seat.

And last, but not least, I am quite certain that a hard grip stiffens a beginner and, once in the habit of being stiff, some never relax in their lives. So how am I to produce relaxed riders (not merely sitters) if my teaching from the outset is to be based on a fixed knee? Thus, with great regret, I had to reject for my work this part of the Italian method, of many principles of which I personally am so fond.

Common Sense Horsemanship, VS Littauer, Chapter 5
The field rider strengthens his position by practice in the open, because it is there that he learns how he can best regulate his balance for security during various movements and attitudes of the horse; he does not, as generally believed, strengthen it by long exercise without stirrups.

... In fact, this hardens the soldier and teaches him to make unnecessary use of force, whereas the secret of being firm on horseback is to be flexible and to use force only when necessary. The balance the rider needs without stirrups is completely different from that needed with stirrups, and then the rider must properly learn to make proper use of stirrups sometimes in order to lighten his seat and not shock the horse's back.

Therefore, work without stirrups, if used in some special instances and used sparingly can be useful, but in most cases is not only useless but harmful.
- Federico Caprilli
 
#27 ·
"She literally greets me with pinned ears. Why is this? She refuses to respond to pressure. For example, when I push on her to move her over, she used to respond with hardly any pressure. Now she braces against it and pins her ears." - @Bettythepony

Question: How many of us would like a "partner" who regularly hit us? How many of us would like to go out for a walk or some exercise with someone who insists on total control of every movement we make? Who insisted we increase our stride length or held our body a certain way while hiking?

Why does riding instruction put so much emphasis on the horse's body, and not the horse's mind?

"...the horse who has rational exercise, during which he is allowed to balance himself as he pleases, not being punished with needless suffering, develops in the most efficient fashion, with great advantage to his way of carrying himself, and becomes docile and submissive to the wishes of the rider.

... in order to accustom horses to the field without ruining them and making them bad-tempered, one must always profit by the natural instincts of the animal substantiating his movements and way of going, and one must give him the least possible discomfort in the mouth, loins and ribs. One must abolish the forced position of balance, and any action of the horse's legs beyond that which is essential to move him forward.

In consequence, we shall have no more riders who ruin horses by trying to undertake work that they are not fit to ask of a horse, and that, even if well done and properly asked, not only is of no advantage but is actually harmful to the true work the horse should perform." - Federico Caprilli
 
#28 ·
Your legs shouldn't be tight, they should be still. I battled for a long time. In the end, what made the difference, was realizing that I rode hunched. This affected the balance of my whole body. Shoulders forward meant that my legs were always a little forward to keep in balance, which meant that they couldn't be still because I was not in balance above the saddle.


The other thing to check is that you are using your hips to take the movement, and not your legs. If your hips move forwards then back with every trot stride, instead of up and down, it is much easier to keep them still.
 
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