Dogs - Aggression or Protectivness? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 33 Old 03-30-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4horses View Post
Get a horse lead rope
Good idea. Dog leads are notoriously weak. Most people with strong aggressive dogs don't use them for a reason!

A good strong wide leather collar will do you a lot better than any nylon one. Fashion collars won't be strong enough. A working dog collar is necessary with dogs like these.

REGAL PRINCESS
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post #12 of 33 Old 03-30-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedar & Salty View Post
It does not matter why your dog is demonstrating aggression. It is absolutely unacceptable and you need to shut it down yesterday.
Wonderful and well written post, however just to expand on the part highlighted it DOES matter. I completely agree with what what said, as well as the sentiment this statement carries (NO excuse!!) however part of training is knowing why the dog does it, and how the OP handles it (with professional help!) will be breaking down the why, what might work for an aggressive dog might not work for a defensive dog. This dog clearly has some issues more then your average dog (your dog sounds wonderful! a well adjusted dog can be corrected much more easily) and needs to be evaluated, in person, by someone used to dealing with this. So no the why doesn't matter as far as it being ok, but the trainer will take why into account when training and working with the OP to figure out how to manage this dog.

@RegalCharm , I agree with you, but putting labels on the dog and bringing it back to the breeder who apparently keeps literally ALL dogs chained and ignored is far from the dogs best interest. I think it's worth at the least evaluating if this is a workable situation or not. If the dog does need to be rehomed I would still view returning to the breeder as a last resort, for the dogs sake, maybe even pts before that point. A good breeder would be a different story, but it sounds like the breeder here is a large part of the problem.
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Last edited by Yogiwick; 03-30-2019 at 12:37 PM.
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post #13 of 33 Old 03-30-2019, 05:12 PM
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As a dog person, someone who has trained a variety of breeds, including 'bully breeds' as a job not just hobby, I disagree with most of 4horse's sentiments.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #14 of 33 Old 03-30-2019, 05:49 PM
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@loosie , I agree. My pit bull has been the easiest dog I have ever trained. My German Wire Hair was nearly impossible,and even my collie was more difficult.

I find that my pit bull wants nothing more than to please her people. She has no prey drive, no need to constantly find birds, no need to herd anything. I think that is what makes them dangerous -- if you praised my dog for showing agression, she would very quickly become dangerous.

That is why I say it doesn't matter where the agression is coming from. She has tendencies to be greedy over resources, to dislike dogs pestering her, to keep strangers at bay, and to be a bit fearful/submissive. I really don't care. She is not to be agressive ever. I also do not put her in situations that I cannot control, where dogs or people would agitate her, or where she needs to engage in aggression.
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post #15 of 33 Old 03-30-2019, 06:08 PM
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I think the only way the dogs breed is relevant here is because it sounds like the owners are not quality breeders and likely don't care about temperaments or worse, promote poor temperaments. While this is a problem with ANY breed when quality is not a focus, pit bulls and the type probably have as many if not more poor breeders then quality ones, and people are more likely to intentionally breed poor temperaments to get a "tough" dog because that's what draws people to these type of breeds.

I was watching a thing on Pit Bulls and Parolee's and while I don't know a huge amount on the breed the lady commented on this very aggressive blue pit that what color were his parents? (Blue) and she came to the conclusion that his aggression was due to poor breeding and largely genetic. The explanation is that blue is a popular color, people want what's cool and popular, people breed what's cool and popular to get more of it with no regard for anything else, poor breeding creates poor temperament (as well as other issues). A good breeder won't look just at the color but at the whole picture, a poor breeder won't and just looks at what will make a buck. (Same with horses!!) So saying "blue = aggression" seems so silly but the explanation of WHY and that blue bloodlines are notoriously unstable made a lot of sense.

I have no idea what color this dog is, I just remember that episode because I thought it was neat lol. Regardless of color the point is the same. Overbreeding/poor breeding is always a problem, in any breed, and a lot of breeds known today for aggression and other behavioral issues (and physical) are that way because they WERE popular at one point and Joe Blow started breeding them and the breed went downhill. Being popular is the worst thing that can happen to a dog breed. Does this dog just have poor genetics? No idea, but it is possible.
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post #16 of 33 Old 03-30-2019, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogiwick View Post
lady commented on this very aggressive blue pit that what color were his parents? (Blue) and she came to the conclusion that his aggression was due to poor breeding and largely genetic. The explanation is that blue is a popular color, people want what's cool and popular,
Another (irrelevant here but interesting) thing about colour is, in studies on silver foxes, on other animals and I recall Temple Grandin talking about black cats... colour does have a bearing on temperament too.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #17 of 33 Old 03-30-2019, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE TIME:

Alright guys!!! So today I went to Tractor Supply again with Rocky. I got him a tough, heavy-duty harness and a heavy duty double leash. He already has a thick leather collar so I wasn't going to waste any more money because those 2 things were $60 together LOL!! I had people walk right up to him and pet him and get in his face, which really ticked me off because you could clearly see he was tense. I had to tell everybody not to just walk up to an unknown dog for safety reasons! UGH!! People are so inconsiderate of their safety!!

Today I went out to a dirt track go-kart race thingy with my boyfriend's mom and family... He was great with everybody and he kept licking everybody's hand that walked by. Unfortunately, somebody got too close with their huge dog and Rocky wouldn't let him anywhere near me. He did the same stupid stance, and lunged, barked, and bared his teeth. I pulled him in front of me quickly, popped his hiney, and made him lay down.

He was very quiet after that and around the same dog that passed by a few more times. I definitely will get him a muzzle for the safety of other dogs and me. He bit my boyfriend's 4-month-old German Shepard after it kept biting him and getting his face. I have noticed today that he doesn't actually bite until a dog is constantly in his face, which I could understand a growl or something but biting is very unacceptable in my family.

I will definitely check into a dog trainer for this because I would hate to lose him. I called the breeders about Rocky and as soon as I said something about aggression, they hung up, blocked me on every bit of social media and my number. When I got Rocky, they wouldn't let me meet his parents which I should've seen as a red flag.

I am going to start taking him everywhere I go that allows dogs so that he can be socialized and understand that other dogs are okay (while he has a muzzle of course). Also, I am very knowledgeable about Pit Bulls but I completely forgot that they were bred to fight animals like bulls and such. He has attacked my gelding numerous times and hurt him. We have put up the invisible fence up and he has a shock collar on to prevent him from going down to my barn.

Thank you guys for all of your help! By the way, he is a black and white pit bull. I've never really been interested in buying the popular red and blue nose pits!
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post #18 of 33 Old 03-31-2019, 12:24 AM
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Please don't take a tense, aggressive dog out and about hoping he will get over it. It's irresponsible and likely to make him worse. He needs careful training in CONTROLLED situations-- where other people and dogs used in the training can read dogs and act appropriately to him. Letting passersby get 'in the face' of a tense dog, and popping him on the butt is only teaching him that his aggression and anxiety is justified. Shut down those warnings and you have a dog that will no longer warn you when he is uncomfortable in a situation and that's how people get a dog who bites 'out of nowhere'. This dog is one who should NOT be out in public situations until his issues are resolved. Hoping to address this by flooding him with other people and dogs will not work, and is going to get someone badly hurt.
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post #19 of 33 Old 03-31-2019, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dez4455 View Post
I had people walk right up to him and pet him and get in his face, which really ticked me off because you could clearly see he was tense. I had to tell everybody not to just walk up to an unknown dog for safety reasons! UGH!! People are so inconsiderate of their safety!!
Yep, people are often clueless & that'll be a big part of your problem - rely on people to be idiots & you should be right! But if you do get him a muzzle, then chances are, that will greatly reduce the amount of people just taking liberties on him too.

Quote:
He was very quiet after that and around the same dog that passed by a few more times. I definitely will get him a muzzle for the safety of other dogs and me. He bit my boyfriend's 4-month-old German Shepard after it kept biting him and getting his face. I have noticed today that he doesn't actually bite until a dog is constantly in his face, which I could understand a growl or something but biting is very unacceptable
Re the dog at the Go-Cart place, that sounds promising - great that he stayed down & didn't try to attack the dog after you told him off for it. So, don't take it for granted, given his early upbringing etc, but perhaps it's just that he hasn't had the chance of being taught the behaviour isn't allowed...

But re your boyfriend's GSD pup, I don't think that sounds like necessarily unreasonable behaviour in the least. Perhaps a human analogy might help with perspective... if it was an irritating child or such, if they kept hassling you or doing some inappropriate behaviour, you would ask them nicely not to. If they kept it up, you might growl at them. If they ignored that & kept it up, would you feel that you would be totally out of line to smack or otherwise actually punish the child to get them to stop? Dogs can't smack or otherwise, they bite when things go too far. It's just natural dog 'language'.

If your dog was attacking for no reason, that is a problem, but if he is *retaliating* against other rudeness but not going overboard, then I don't see that as a problem in the least. The GSD needs to learn some 'manners' & respect for other dogs, and he's not going to learn, if other dogs aren't allowed to correct him effectively. He will grow up like an undisciplined, spoiled brat of a kid.

Case in point is my current puppy. He's 6mo & 25kg already(deerhound x bull arab), and he is... still a handful tho getting much better. Because my other dog - staghound x - is nearly 40kg, we have been quite protective of him until recently, as he was small enough for her to easily hurt him, just in play. But he's big enough now, and he's got very cocky about attacking her(in play), which she generally puts up with even if she doesn't want to play, she's very tolerant. But often I saw her tell him & tell him, I see her snarl, growl, even snap at him & sometimes he still won't stop, until she has finally had enough and jumps up, grabs him by the neck and pins him down roughly. It looks quite 'aggressive'. My kids have nearly had hysterics that he's going to get seriously hurt & she's being 'mean' but I've told them while we need to supervise to ensure it doesn't go too far, we need to allow this - if she's never allowed to put him in his place, what hope has he got of learning respectful behaviour with other dogs, esp when he's full grown &... Dog knows how big that will be.

But he's learning - I've only seen her get to that point a few times & he is starting to pay more attention to her bodylanguage & stop hassling when she doesn't want to play. And down the park with other dogs, he's been in their face a few times, ignoring the dogs 'telling' him, until they had to 'shout' but because they haven't been prevented from *effectively* telling him, he's learning to mind his p's & q's with them & is turning into a sociable, well mannered dog. There is of course a balance, but it's important to realise this is natural dog language & they all have to learn it from other dogs if they're to become 'fluent' & sociable.

Quote:
I called the breeders about Rocky and as soon as I said something about aggression, they hung up, blocked me on every bit of social media and my number. When I got Rocky, they wouldn't let me meet his parents which I should've seen as a red flag.
Wow! Aside from the keeping dogs chained, sounds like definitely one to warn people against!

Quote:
I am going to start taking him everywhere I go that allows dogs so that he can be socialized and understand that other dogs are okay (while he has a muzzle of course). ... He has attacked my gelding numerous times and hurt him. We have put up the invisible fence up and he has a shock collar on to prevent him from going down to my barn.
At this age & stage, 'socialise' him VERY carefully, don't 'overface' him - I'd wait until you've consulted a behaviourist to learn the best ways to go about it *safely* as you could easily cause things to get worse.

Re horses, yes, I sympathise. My stupid(beautiful, clever mostly but sometimes very stupid) staghound couldn't help herself, when I went to tell off the horses for something, or she thinks they shouldn't be where they are, she will go try to 'help' - which is attempt to hang off their tails!! I am primarily a positive reinforcement(reward) based trainer, have very little time for punishment in training generally, but this behaviour is one that I've used a shock collar for.... as she has been kicked before(in the head, a few times!), and that just hasn't dissuaded her!
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #20 of 33 Old 03-31-2019, 12:41 AM
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Letting passersby get 'in the face' of a tense dog, and popping him on the butt is only teaching him that his aggression and anxiety is justified. Shut down those warnings and you have a dog that will no longer warn you when he is uncomfortable in a situation and that's how people get a dog who bites 'out of nowhere'.
You wrote this, Silver, as I was writing my response. I think it is something that should be read & absorbed over & over by OP!
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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