Canker? Or whatís going on? - Page 7 - The Horse Forum
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post #61 of 75 Old 12-04-2019, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Well this seems to have turned into more of a journal than anything else.

Came home from work and Red was noticeably worse. Limping pretty bad. Swing by the vet and picked up the bute. Administered that at 5. His backs were hot and swollen so I cold hosed. Not long enough but as long as he’d let me. About thirty minutes. Then it was dark. Didn’t have a chance to pick his or the pony’s feet. Husband went to the store for stronger head lamps.

Spoke to the new farrier again and sent photos and videos. She thinks he is walking on the soles of his feet instead of the wall and bars and is getting stone bruising and probably has abscesses. Since he seems to have gotten a lot worse over the last two trims it makes sense to me that the trimming is what has caused this. He was much more comfortable with the packs on, so all of that makes sense.
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post #62 of 75 Old 12-05-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WildestDandelion View Post
Well this seems to have turned into more of a journal than anything else.

Came home from work and Red was noticeably worse. Limping pretty bad. Swing by the vet and picked up the bute. Administered that at 5. His backs were hot and swollen so I cold hosed. Not long enough but as long as heíd let me. About thirty minutes. Then it was dark. Didnít have a chance to pick his or the ponyís feet. Husband went to the store for stronger head lamps.

Spoke to the new farrier again and sent photos and videos. She thinks he is walking on the soles of his feet instead of the wall and bars and is getting stone bruising and probably has abscesses. Since he seems to have gotten a lot worse over the last two trims it makes sense to me that the trimming is what has caused this. He was much more comfortable with the packs on, so all of that makes sense.
You are probably still at work. Update if you can, when you get home and have a moment to breath.

Were you able to repack him? Itís going to be tough to keep the Magic Cushion in, if you have mud, but youíre going to have to do your best until the vet gets there.

I am puzzled by the sudden & apparent drop of the pasterns. I will be anxious to hear what the vetís opinions are.

I may have asked this before, I canít remember ó is there a neighbor or a boarding facility, or a training barn near by, that you could keep him in a stall with turnout for awhile?

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #63 of 75 Old 12-05-2019, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by walkinthewalk View Post
You are probably still at work. Update if you can, when you get home and have a moment to breath.

Were you able to repack him? Itís going to be tough to keep the Magic Cushion in, if you have mud, but youíre going to have to do your best until the vet gets there.

I am puzzled by the sudden & apparent drop of the pasterns. I will be anxious to hear what the vetís opinions are.

I may have asked this before, I canít remember ó is there a neighbor or a boarding facility, or a training barn near by, that you could keep him in a stall with turnout for awhile?
Actually, work is the best place for me to write I am much busier at home than at my desk job!

Wasn't supposed to re-pack, although given how he was much more comfortable packed, vet and farrier think he has abscesses. They don't want him stalled; they said with the inflammation it's good to keep him moving. He wasn't limping anymore this morning so bute seems to be helping. Will dose again tonight and cold hose. Getting up early every morning to pick hooves before work. We don't have any mud, luckily. It's been dry and no rain on the forecast for the next week at least

I cannot wait for Saturday when the new farrier is coming out. She isn't sure yet if she will only correct the trim or add shoes and pads. Either way, she is very confident we can get him much more comfortable and on the way to being sound again.

Can't remember if I mentioned this or not, but she is also a vet tech (at a different vets) which is also comforting.
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post #64 of 75 Old 12-05-2019, 05:42 PM
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Well alrighty then, lollol.

1. Possible abscesses - that would mean soaking in warm water and Epsom salts and it would mean NOT packing the hoof until the abscesses blow:(

If ever there was. ďYes I guess notĒ moment, this is it.

IF it is safe to pack the hooves (no abscesses) We used VetTecís Equithane CS liquid hoof pack on Joker for about eight months. ďCSĒ = Copper Sulfate.

https://www.vettec.com/en-us/equi-pak-cs-210cc-pour-pad


This stuff is awesome and I highly recommend it. The horse does have to stand well for an extended period but at least the pour in sets up in only a few minutes.

We stopped using it because, like everything else thatís been tried on his hooves, it became counter-productive.

I offer this ^^^ as an alternative to full leather pads. Dirt can get under the leather pads from the back of the shoes and you have no way to clean it out.

My thought is the pad either has to completely seal the hoof (like the Equithane) or the pad could be a partial wedge pad, that fits all the way around, under the shoe, but leaves the sole exposed and you would still be able to pick his hooves.

The wedges, however, may not be a good application for whatever they think is wrong.

You did say the new farrier is a vet tech. Hopefully she has some new technological magic in her tool box to help your horse:)

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #65 of 75 Old 12-05-2019, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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The new farrier, E, is not who packed him with magic cushion.

Will know more Saturday when she’s seen him... for now she said to keep going with bute and cold hosing
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post #66 of 75 Old 12-05-2019, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Well Big Red is def still sore tonight but not near as bad as yesterday. No heat on his feet either.

Watching him walk is so odd. I don’t understand how abscesses or poor trimming could cause dropped pasterns but neither the new farrier nor the vet have commented on it at all.

Keeping a close eye but I’m also feeling like he’s losing weight. In addition to full access to hay he also gets senior pellets and alfalfa with salt, copper and zinc three times a day. He’s not as interested in it anymore with the copper added and the pony is constantly trying to steal his food.

Going to start putting her up so he can eat his meals in peace.

We have a gate on one half of our run in which functions as a 12x11 make shift stall when we need to put one of them up for short periods.
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post #67 of 75 Old 12-05-2019, 09:04 PM
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There aren't too many horses that line the smell of a copper supplement, much less the taste:). Maybe remove the copper & zinc supplement for awhile, so he will eat his senior feed.

It is possible he might be suffering on/off sub-clinical laminitis as that is how it often starts. X-rays will show if there's any coffin bone (P3) rotation.

If you think he's losing weight he probably is. He's been under a lot of stress, so it's very possible he is also dealing with some type of ulcer. Add that to the list for the vet.

FWIW, gastric ulcers are not treated the same as hind gut ulcers.

I might ask for some blood work. CBC, Chemistry Panel, test for neurological issues to be safe.

Checking for insulin level, ACTH (Cushings), requires the horse not be fed anything but hay & water, since 10:00 the previous night. They are also blood draws.

I know that will be expensive but at least you will know what isn't wrong and have a baseline.

Is he eating his hay? If he can be separated from the pony, do that and load him up with hay. If he goes off his hay and his feed pan stuff, I would call the vet Friday.

You're right that Saturday can't get here soon enough.

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #68 of 75 Old 12-06-2019, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Very good point.... fed him without the copper and zinc this morning and he ate fine. I was hoping that the alfalfa mash would cover up the smell but I guess not. Pony gobbles up the copper/zinc without a care but Red is finicky.

The old farrier messaged me last night wanting an update. She has always been so helpful with him (even pet sitting for us when we go out of town) so I am sure part of it is just her caring personality but I am sure she also feels a sense of responsibility and guilt. I told her I don't understand how even if this is an abscess or unbalanced hooves how that would explain the dropped fetlocks. She had a good point to that - he's a retired barrel racer, so it may have been an old injury that was aggravated by the wrapping. That makes a lot of sense to me.
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post #69 of 75 Old 12-07-2019, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Farrier came today. I was at work but husband handled it. Got an update from both farrier and husband after.

She looked him over and deemed shoes but not pads necessary. She trimmed his front feet while the furnace heated up. He’s normally an angel getting trimmed; she thinks he must have had some bad showing experiences because he was very fearful of the furnace and the tools. Makes me so sad. She got the front shoes fitted but couldn’t get them on him. She thinks partly because of fear and partly because of how much pain he’s in. She requested we get a very mild sedative from the vet and she come back next week. I wish they would have called me because I already had some on hand and could have told them.

She said that the previous farrier hasn’t done a bad job per se, she just never took enough. She said he can stand to lose about 1/2 inch of wall. His frogs and bars are over grown. His toes are so forward he’s walking in heel bulbs and that’s giving the appearance of DSLD. He’s been walking on his walls so hard they have folded under in parts and everything combed has created a magnificent breeding ground for thrush.

Having this feedback and knowing it can be fixed has me feeling very optimistic. I firmly believe we can get this under control once she’s managed to trim.
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post #70 of 75 Old 12-07-2019, 11:22 PM
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Things are looking up:)

Did the new farrier mention anything about using glue on shoes, since he's so fearful of the whole shoeing process and nailing is probably too painful, even with Bute or sedating him?

My farrier gave the Sigafoos glue-ons some consideration but nixed the idea. I think it was because he does deal with Whiteline and she was afraid the glue would exacerbate it.

They may not be a good option for you because of the thrush, but here's the link if you want to look at them:)

https://soundhorse.com

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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