Cartel, long toes, dsld - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 26 Old 10-29-2018, 06:37 PM
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Agreed Greentree. I am going to say... little more.

Bucky, it does seem you're coming along well as a maintenance trimmer so far, but there seem to be some major gaps in your knowledge. It sounds to me like you have learned what you have solely from the net, have not done much if any hands on learning, working under farriers/trimmers or done any courses on the subject. That's perfectly fine, we all start somewhere. But IMHO you need far more, especially if you want to do it as a job. It sounds like you're taking my(general, non specific) info as a 'how to trim' these particular cases you show. Taking me(a faceless internet stranger who's qualifications & even name you don't know) on faith, without enough understanding to be objective about it. Or understand what I'm saying fully.

This is OK if you're only doing trims on your own horse(altho I'd still advise enrolling in some courses & using a good farrier/trimmer regularly & just doing 'interim trims' if at all poss, while you learn more). But IMH(and strong)O it is simply not appropriate to be doing rehab type work on your own, esp if trimming other's horses, esp if you're charging money for the 'service', at your stage of learning. It's one thing if there are absolutely no options to learning 'remotely'...

Quote:
The owner has been aware of my lack of qualifications since they contacted me in the beginning. I'll let them know how you feel and suggest a finding a better farrier, but if they insist on having me I won't turn them away.
Regardless of money changing hands or other factors, there's the ethics of working on a live animal without enough knowledge. It is one thing if there are absolutely no options, but...

[QUOTE]I knew thinning the walls along the quarters and heels was bad for balance[/QUOTE

That is not correct. IMO. Necessarily. It's the way you're doing it, why, what else you're doing, not doing... It is just not enough to copy something you've seen somewhere on a video. There is no 'recipe' for this stuff. You need to also understand why/why not to do stuff. That is why I 'go on' all the time about my advice, drawings etc, being taken only as rough, to give general ideas, 'food for thought' not as 'how to's'...
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #12 of 26 Old 10-29-2018, 10:50 PM
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I'm not sure why everyone is getting in a huff. If the owner has admitted in writing that the horse has multiple physical problems, i doubt she could win anything by suing. The horse is not worth anything at all other than meat value, if that. Especially if this horse was extremely cheap or free. I see no need for getting insurance or being worried about getting sued in this situation. Certain people will sue over anything, but that doesn't mean they will win. This horse is pretty much crippled to begin with.

My mare has dsld and she is 25 years old. I wouldn't dream of suing my farrier.

If this is DSLD, the most you can do is try to make the horse comfortable. That is my goal with my old horse. I know she has limited time left. She is on pain medication and kept comfortable. I trim her on wood blocks so she doesn't have to lift her feet up and use a hoof stand because she can't bring her legs into farrier position. If i can trim her feet while she is laying down in the pasture, i prefer to do that. She is very trusting and will lay flat out if i push on her neck.

Bucky gold- you look like you are doing an excellent job. Hopefully someone on here can offer more suggestions.

Now there are shoeing options for a horse like this, but my understanding is that while it rests certain tendons and ligaments, it increases the strain elsewhere which can cause further issues.

The only other thing i have wondered about, is whether hoof boots or soft ride boots would be beneficial for my old mare and her arthritis. It isn't like she is on hard ground though. She is either on pasture or sand. I do stall her for a few hours each day on mats without bedding, just so she can eat her hay without mixing it into the dirt.
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post #13 of 26 Old 10-29-2018, 11:11 PM
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post #14 of 26 Old 10-30-2018, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 4horses View Post
I'm not sure why everyone is getting in a huff.
I for oe am ot i a 'huff' i the least (sorry, that missig letter fially packed up for good - hope you ca uderstad!). As you will kow if you've bee aroud here log eough, I'm more tha willig to offer people advice & opiios, but my problem here is that bucky has set themselves up as a 'pro' but seems to be relyig oly o kowledge they're gettig here. I just do't feel it's resposible for me to offer advice whe it's beig take i that way. I'm dubious that it's a good idea for bucky to be trimmig for others at this poit i their 'career'.

Quote:
If the owner has admitted in writing that the horse has multiple physical problems, i doubt she could win anything by suing. The horse is not worth anything
That, IMO is the least importat factor. That the horse is 'worthless' is absolutely irrelevat to me - ad subjective. What is most relevat is that this is a setiet beig with feeligs, ot a iaimate object. That icorrect trimmig & advice could well hurt the horse - as I thik may have happeed i the other thread - is what cocers me the most.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #15 of 26 Old 10-30-2018, 09:43 AM
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Gosh @loosie your post is like one of those silly Facebook tests!!

Not in a huff here, either. My thoughts are exactly as loosie stated (only with ns).
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I don't break horses, I FIX them!
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post #16 of 26 Old 10-30-2018, 10:42 AM
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I didn't take the posts as being in a huff. My take on the posts that are be considered being in huff ,are people who care about the well being of the horse. loosie,greentree & jaydee are all very caring people and care about the horse's well being. It's one thing to learn to trim your own horse's. But to take on horse's who obviously have issue that require, someone trained in hoof care, not someone who's got little knowledge in it.

Yeah i'm trying to do my own horses feet BUT they are my own. So if i screw them up it's my own darn fault. But i'm going and learning hands on with a certified trimmer. I'd never trim for other people and charge money, i wouldn't do it even for no charge i just wouldn't there is just to much that can go wrong. No animal is worthless no matter what might be wrong with it, it's a life that has feelings and emotions.


It's great that Bucky wants to learn and help these horse's and their owners but caution needs to be taken. People will say oh i'd never sue you. But when things go wrong they sure will SUE and in a heartbeat! I can bet you this horse that is worthless, bet he's not worthless in his owners eyes. And NO i don't think horse is worthless he deserves love care and a kind peaceful end of life, when it comes to that.


@loosie your last post is to funny with the missing Ns.
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post #17 of 26 Old 10-30-2018, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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I tell anyone who asks me to trim their foundered and lame horses I lack experience and knowledge and can not trim their horses. I'm not taking everyone's comments on how to's. I take logical comments that make sense into consideration when I trimmed. Beveling from the ground surface and turning into a strong roll made sense, because the toe is to long we need to back it up, how? A bevel from ground surface and a strong roll made sense to relieve the toe from bearing weight so it could come back.

After looking around I found another barefoot trimmer to take a look at chances hooves and give his opinion. Chance isn't tender any more but is favoring his left front. He said that chances pain immediately after the trim was likely from the bruise, and the few days later was from the thrush in his hooves. He said my trim was good, but since this time the thrush made him sore, to next time just rock the heels back and rasp the toe from the front and have the owner treat for thrush everyday. I showed him cartels hooves and he said he was impressed, and that if I ever needed help he'd be happy to answer questions and such. I'm not saying I'm perfect at trimming, nor am I selling myself as a professional trimmer. The ads I post all say "barefoot trimmer, maintenance only, no shoeing or corrective trimming".
If any of you don't want to give me advice that's fine but I'm just taking any comments as food for thought, I logically think about what you say.
When I started trimming my own horse I knew I was bad but had no hands on help so my last resort was the internet, look at my horses hooves now? It was because I was given advice that made sense. I'm not crowd sourcing for and education, I post before and afters and consider comments on what I could do better next time.
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post #18 of 26 Old 10-30-2018, 01:58 PM
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Maybe i missed something - what other thread?

Obviously the horse isn't worthless to its owners. But it is very difficult to find a good farrier. I don't see anything particularly terrible about the trim. Unless the owners of the horse want to pay for therapeutic shoes, I'm not sure finding a different farrier makes much difference in this case. Or am i missing something?


If someone wants to hire a student to trim their horse, that is up to them. Professionals can make mistakes just as easily as a student. I think sometimes students do a better job than professionals because professionals get lazy, or rushed. I've certainly had so called professionals make my horses sore by trimming too much. I've had professionals leave the heels unbalanced or take off too much toe, or fail to bevel the toe. Usually they are rushing to get to their next client.

I knew one farrier who was demeaning to women and abusive to horses, but i have to admit he was one of the best at doing therapeutic work. I could not stand him on a personal level but he did save lives.
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post #19 of 26 Old 10-30-2018, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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4horses on my other thread long toes on chance he had a bruise underneath a bar made him tender after the trim and his thrushy frogs made him sore a few days later, now a lot of commenters are saying I should just stick to maintenance trims and that I'm taking everyone's comments completely literal. What are the chances any future new clients are going to have perfect hooves? Obviously I can't treat lame or foundered horses or do hoof wall ressections nor do I plan to. Chance is feeling better and the owner is treating for thrush
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post #20 of 26 Old 10-30-2018, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyGold View Post
4horses on my other thread long toes on chance he had a bruise underneath a bar made him tender after the trim and his thrushy frogs made him sore a few days later, now a lot of commenters are saying I should just stick to maintenance trims and that I'm taking everyone's comments completely literal. What are the chances any future new clients are going to have perfect hooves? Obviously I can't treat lame or foundered horses or do hoof wall ressections nor do I plan to. Chance is feeling better and the owner is treating for thrush
From the pictures you have posted of chances feet & cartels feet i thought the trims look good. Those feet look better than my own horse's feet,that were done by a certified farrier. Think you have good plans no horse has perfect feet no trimmer or farrier is perfect either. After all trimmers/farriers are human and humans make mistakes. You obviously care about the horse's and their humans to try and help them out.
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