Coronet band health (ex-show jumper) - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 06-04-2019, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
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Coronet band health (ex-show jumper)

Hi, my 13yr old thoroughbred gelding has been retired & barefoot for the past year. Before then he was a show jumper and I assume shoed. My farrier does a great job & describes his hooves as 'very common' (ie. could be better). They are chipped and cracked - at places this goes all the way to the coronet. I apply Radiol "Pedicine" about once per week (or per fortnight). The directions say to "rub well all around the coronet". (The climate here is sub-tropical & we often experience dry (drought) & wet (floods).


Should I rub into the coronet & the skin which connects to the coronet, or will it be too strong and damage the skin?


The ingredients are listed as:

  • Soft parafin, 68.7%
  • Menthol B.P., 1.5%
  • Other ingedients, 29.8%

What non-diet method can I use to support healthy hoof growth?

Any other advice?

Thank you & I hope any answers can help you care for your horse/s also.


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post #2 of 39 Old 06-04-2019, 11:14 AM
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Is there some reason why you say 'non diet' suggestions.
So often hoof problems like that are diet related but maybe you've already exhausted all options there and no success.
Based on what every farrier I've ever had has said about weather related causes is that the hoof copes least well in dry weather and rapid changes in wet to dry are a big stress factor.
I've always found that it was best to use a water based product than one that prevented water from getting into the hoof. Its used on the entire hoof and not just around the coronet band

Just winging it is not a plan
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post #3 of 39 Old 06-04-2019, 06:06 PM
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Hoof growth is from a healthy diet fed.
Correct vitamins, minerals and supporting nutrients needed.
Rubbing some external compound on the toenail...
Well, what does nail-polish do for your fingernails but make them look pretty.
But does polish actually make them grow stronger, thicker or can it actually starve off and out daily nutrients...


A good farrier with timely work done consistently will do more good for keeping those hooves looking good and being healthy.
How much foot does the farrier remove when the horse is seen?
How often between seen and work being done?
What do you feed your horse in amounts?
Does your farrier recommend any supplements for hoof improvements?
If so which ones and do you follow that recommendation?


Growth comes from within...
Healthy comes from within...
You feed it in for it to be seen out...

Pretty comes from what is painted on ...


Have you asked your farrier what he wants you to do so the horse grows a better hoof?
What does he/she say to do and what to use?
Your farrier knows your horse and is best able to offer advice for your particular horse...

....
jmo...

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post #4 of 39 Old 06-04-2019, 09:10 PM
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Hi & welcome to HF!

I echo Jaydee's question but I'm guessing that you said 'non dietary' because you have already covered that 'base' and have done a diet analysis & have his nutrition well balanced?

Cracks may be/have been initially caused or still perpetuated by mechanical problems - hoof balance, etc. But particularly long standing & right up to the coronary border, I'm willing to take a punt & say they ARE significantly infected with 'seedy toe' aka 'white line disease'. So treating that effectively is paramount to growing cracks out, as it can eat away at healthy tissue faster than it can grow, if left. Esp if they're right up to the coronary border, it's likely they will need to be 'resected'(cut out the infected area) by a farrier, as part of effective treatment, along with topical antiseptic. Chipped hooves, particularly in a horse who's retired, is either due to overlong hooves breaking bits away, &/or infection or diet/nutrition making the wall extra weak.

As to the 'Pedicine', had a bit of a chuckle at the 'other ingredients 28.9%' - spose it could depend what that nearly 1/3 of the concoction is made from, but generally, topical stuff & 'hoof oils' are NOT helpful for hoof growth or health, and esp in the case of cracked & infected hooves, esp if oilbased, can actually do more harm, by sealing in anaerobic bugs, providing them with a 'nicer' environment to thrive! The reasons 'resecting' is often necessary is because infection is in 'sealed' areas which are a)hard/impossible to treat with topical antiseptic, so it needs to be opened up, cleaned out as much as necessary to let the antiseptic get at any dregs left, and b)opening infection to the air is not good for anaerobic organisms. So... hopefully it's the dry season wherever you be, so you've got a fair few months for hooves to be dry while you address this - wet feet are prone to weakness & infection - but(without more info at least) I'd ditch the 'ointment'.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #5 of 39 Old 06-06-2019, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your replies!



Diet is full-time forage on 'blue couch' & native grasses (no Setaria). And twice daily 1 cup of 'hobby farm mix' (grain) & 1st/2nd grade lucerne (to counteract acidity caused by the grain). My other horse has the same and the farrier has shown me her extremely healthy hoof walls (thick and white, no marks). So the diet is fine...unless his breed (thoroughbred) or his particular constitution is in need of something in particular - is it common for horses to have individual dietary/nutrition needs?


I am familiar with 'seedy toe' as my mare had it when I first got her - and I don't detect it (through smell or consistency when cleaning hoof). And the farrier would definitely mention it!



I have noticed 'Pegasus' rests his right hind leg on the tip of the hoof (kind of swings the leg in the hip socket) - it's the same hoof that has the crack which goes all the way to the coronet band. Could resting on the tip be the cause?



He's an ex-show jumper so I assume there may be some strain or issues as a result. My farrier mentioned sacroiliac injuries and I did some research & discovered Hunter's Bump & visually he appears to have this. Also, I read that it causes a particular gait indicated by throwing the rider up and forward - and this happens when I ride him. Could Hunter's Bump cause a crack in the hoof wall? Would it be from nerve damage, an uneven stance on that hoof or something else?


If it is the Hunter's Bump - what's the best way to treat it?

Can horses be healed from it - or is it something that needs to be managed for life?

Any other advice?
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post #6 of 39 Old 06-06-2019, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisssy View Post
My other horse has the same and the farrier has shown me her extremely healthy hoof walls (thick and white, no marks). So the diet is fine...unless his breed (thoroughbred) or his particular constitution is in need of something in particular - is it common for horses to have individual dietary/nutrition needs?
Usually it's not that horses have such individualized dietary needs, meaning they all need the same basic percentages of vitamins and minerals. But other things affecting them might mean a certain horse needs supplementing when another doesn't.
For example, a horse with very good genes and a background where they developed very healthy hooves when young might retain good hoof health even if their diet doesn't have the perfect amount of minerals and such. Another horse such as a TB might have worse genetics and not had the same treatment when the hooves were developing, so a minor lack of minerals might make their already weak hoof structure worsen to the point where it affects them.

Another factor with a thoroughbred is that they might have had their digestion affected by a stressful life, showing or racing in the past. Low grade ulcers or unbalanced bacteria in the gut can mean the horse doesn't make as many B vitamins. Biotin is a B vitamin produced by bacteria in a healthy gut that affects hoof growth directly. So a horse with less than ideal digestion may need Biotin supplemented. It can never hurt to give a horse with poor hooves a good hoof supplement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisssy View Post
I have noticed 'Pegasus' rests his right hind leg on the tip of the hoof (kind of swings the leg in the hip socket) - it's the same hoof that has the crack which goes all the way to the coronet band. Could resting on the tip be the cause?
If a crack goes all the way to the coronet band, you should see if the crack goes through the band, in which case it is growing down from the top rather than coming up from the bottom. If the coronary band gets injured, it often leaves a scar and the hoof will never be able to grow down sealed together at that spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisssy View Post
If it is the Hunter's Bump - what's the best way to treat it?

Can horses be healed from it - or is it something that needs to be managed for life?
A Hunter's bump can be caused from more minor ligament strains that heal up or go away when a horse's other body issues are addressed. It can also be caused from more major tears or dislocations that will affect the horse permanently. I'd have your vet look at it and give you an expert opinion.
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post #7 of 39 Old 06-06-2019, 08:47 AM
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I can't answer all those questions but can tell you that just a people are individuals in their dietary needs so are our horses.
Certain breeds of horses are more apt to have issues than others, it just seems.
Hereditary trends also do play a part as does environmental things continually presented such as common practices done to racehorses....
We can help some of that with adding proper supplements in deficient areas to better help the body manufacturer certain structures.
To my knowledge seedy toe is not seen or smelled..this is the "hidden" affliction that is between the walls of the hoof.
If you smell or see it is thrush, similar organism but different approach to killing it and healing of hoof tissue.

Hunters Bump often is part of horse anatomy but can be made more prominent by the past work history of the horse.
Can it be fixed or corrected...to some extent possibly with some really good chiropractic work and riding exercises done, but a anatomical build is something I would not be messing with to much if the horse has been like this for years...

I am not sure exactly what it is you feed as I've never heard of the products you mentioned by name..
But diet is a individual thing..
Hunters Bump can be helped, but not cured and yes, some continual attention to way of travel and gait needs farrier work with awareness of this and awareness in riding/ground exercises done to help strengthen that area too.
Seedy toe...will leave that to the experts.
...
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post #8 of 39 Old 06-06-2019, 10:13 PM
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Hey Chrissy, where are you in the world? General region is fine.

I googled & found that if you're in Aus, Barastoc & a few others make a 'Hobby Farm Mix'... & I guess o/s have different ones again. What seems general, from a quick look at the Oz ones is that it's a cereal grain mix made for all stock - sheep, cows, goats & horses. So it has to be safe for all. Which means it doesn't contain certain nutrients - or enough of - that horses need & others don't. For eg. copper is one thing that horses need, but will not be present in that feed, because it will kill sheep! And copper is one nutrient shown to particularly effect the hooves & coat.

So, I think Gottatrot has explained very well why some horses will do well on less than optimum while others don't. I think it's far better to have animals on species specific diets. Also that as there is a wide range of nutritional differences in pasture/hay, depending on what/how it's grown, not just variety of grass. So if at all feasible I'd suggest a pasture/diet analysis, so you know exactly what the horse is getting, so what & how much of whatever, it needs to 'fill the gaps'. FeedXL.com is one good option to help you balance diets & also to find appropriate products to supplement.

Seedy toe, aka white line disease is almost(? don't think anyone's shown otherwise tho) invariably a part of 'incureable' cracks IME. At least, I'd be willing to bet on it. It may be as 'minor' as a hairline darker or lighter crack from the outside, but being anaerobic can still be thriving unseen, in the hoof wall. Or it can be really obvious. Even when obvious it(& thrush for that matter) doesn't necessarily smell terrible, and isn't always black & gooey or such. As I think I said, I'd consider 'resecting' probably necessary, would definitely be treating for infection. Depending on your situation, twice weekly topical treatment as well may be fine.

No, resting on his toe, of itself won't cause cracks. It is very possibly due to pain somewhere though, if he rests it a lot, doesn't like to stand square.

BUT IF he has 'stretched' toes and he rests on them a lot, this could *contribute*, putting more force on the damaged wall. If he is well trimmed, toes rolled & attention to correct 'breakover' then it shouldn't put more strain on the crack.

No, 'hunters bump' won't have anything to do with the cracks either. That could well be the cause of him resting a hind leg though. And as HLG said, it may not be treatable. Especially in an older horse, where the damage is chronic. I'd personally get a chiropractic vet to come see him. Even if they can't fix it or make it better even, they should be able to tell you if the horse is in pain from it & whether/what you may need to manage it. And being a vet, they can proscribe if needed & do/check other stuff too.

The only body issues I can think of, aside from structural deformities, are those that predispose a horse to toe first landings, and that can still be managed with good hoofcare. Assuming it can't be treated in the body.

I had the idea from your earlier post that the horse had multiple cracks, but I wonder, does he only have them in that one hoof or something?

If you want to check out the link in my signature below, for what's required, then post some hoof pics, we could maybe give you some more specific advice there.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #9 of 39 Old 06-06-2019, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gottatrot View Post
If a crack goes all the way to the coronet band, you should see if the crack goes through the band, in which case it is growing down from the top rather than coming up from the bottom. If the coronary band gets injured, it often leaves a scar and the hoof will never be able to grow down sealed together at that spot.
Oh, just this bit... Cracks can of course grow down from the top, for eg. caused by an abscess burst at the coronary border. But unfortunately I've seen many feet with cracks that started at the bottom but reached the coronet. Reckon that's a sure sign of significant seedy toe playing a big part, as it can eat away at healthy tissue faster than it can grow.

There is also much evidence - including I have my own, from my own treatment of 'incureable' long term cracks through the coronary band, that this doesn't have to mean they'll never grow down 'sealed' again. Never say never I suppose, but if the infection is treated effectively *& if near/into live tissue, 'gentle' non-necrotising antiseptic is used* & the horse is kept well trimmed, so there's no excess strain to the area, then IME the crack should grow out fine. There will often be a 'scar' - a... divot in the wall permanently but it is of no structural consequence & the wall is strong below it.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #10 of 39 Old 06-08-2019, 02:52 AM
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There is also much evidence - including I have my own, from my own treatment of 'incureable' long term cracks through the coronary band, that this doesn't have to mean they'll never grow down 'sealed' again. Never say never I suppose, but if the infection is treated effectively *& if near/into live tissue, 'gentle' non-necrotising antiseptic is used* & the horse is kept well trimmed, so there's no excess strain to the area, then IME the crack should grow out fine. There will often be a 'scar' - a... divot in the wall permanently but it is of no structural consequence & the wall is strong below it.
Yes, agree, I said that wrong. The hoof can seal together and be strong with proper treatment and trimming, but there will be a scar down the hoof wall if the scar in the coronary band is significant.
My mare has a scar like this, from an injury to the coronary band. Her hoof is strong, but there appears to be a vertical line in the hoof that looks different from the rest. It's not a crack, just a scar because it grows out of a scar. At the very ground level there is a small divot in the hoof wall because of that scar. This stays the same, and doesn't crack up the hoof but is just an irregularity in growth.
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