Critique my trim, but you get one hoof, sort of - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 09-17-2019, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
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Critique my trim, but you get one hoof, sort of

I have been neglecting poor Scotty. He has gone close to 8 weeks without a trim. I figured if I rode him on the gravel enough he would self trim somewhat, lol. Well he didn't chip, but his right front flared pretty bad. He has always been prone to flaring on the front, but my farrier friend who taught me to how to balance, gave me instructions via FaceTime how to correct this. Well I have been busy doing other people's horses hooves and I'm sure I could have found time for him but I didn't. Anyways this is his right front before the trim. this will take several posts because it only lets me attach 3 pictures at a time..
IMG_20190916_190920.jpg

IMG_20190916_180228.jpg
After trim, his natural balance indicated he needed the extra support on the outside.
IMG_20190916_182118.jpg
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-17-2019, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
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Part 2

More of the finished hoof and then some of the both fronts then what the heck, you get the backs as well.
IMG_20190916_182253.jpg

IMG_20190916_185437.jpg

IMG_20190916_185422.jpg

IMG_20190916_185502.jpg

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post #3 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 04:59 AM
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As you know, can't give any feedback on those angles of hooves on the ground, but they don't look too shabby in the least.

The only major thing I'd do differently is to bevel the toe from underneath, back to 'breakover' and roll the toe wall a lot more strongly. It seems, just looking at wall width there and that dark yellow in the lamellar line(indicating stress), that your horse breaks over slightly medially - to the inside, so I'd reflect this in the way I 'rolled' the toe - slightly more medially.

To be finicky... In the solar shot, I think you may have taken a bit more sole material than I would have liked. I would not generally take anything from the front 1/3 of the foot, tho it appears a lot had to come off the bars. The outside quarter wall looks like it's maybe a tad long - assuming that's not just the dirt giving that impression.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #4 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 06:09 AM Thread Starter
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I used to roll the toe, however, both farriers that I work with said no. If you get the break over on the front wall correct, you don't need to roll anything. And yes I thought the outside quarter needed more to come off, however, that's not where his natural balance was, if I took it down, that would come out as the low spot. Leaving it, he came out level to HIS natural balance. Now the way both farriers taught me to take down the toe, was absolutely not to roll your nippers in any way, but keep them straight and take the toe down. Seems to work better than the way I was doing it. Thanks for the reply, appreciate it Loosie!
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post #5 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waresbear View Post
I used to roll the toe, however, both farriers that I work with said no. If you get the break over on the front wall correct, you don't need to roll anything...Now the way both farriers taught me to take down the toe, was absolutely not to roll your nippers in any way, but keep them straight and take the toe down. Seems to work better than the way I was doing it. Thanks for the reply, appreciate it Loosie!
To be clear, you're doing a good job and this is getting into details where opinions differ.

I agree with keeping the nippers flat when taking the hoof wall down. Or you can use them differently if you have the same goal in mind, which is to not take the wall below the sole ridge in the toe. I personally don't want my sole to be the highest point in the toe, I want some hoof wall supporting. So keeping the nippers flat would be one way to ensure that didn't happen. I think it's important to understand not "what" to do, but "why," and then you can reach your goal any way you like. So if you tend to nip crooked and need to rasp wall down to get it level, you'll want to leave extra height so you don't have to rasp into your toe sole and thin it in that very important area under the coffin bone.

It is important is to realize that the hoof wall grows down and forward.
Why does the hoof grow down and forward toward the toe? I believe it is because of wear on hard surfaces when the hoof breaks over. If you look at very healthy hooves on hard ground, they wear the breakover back to the waterline of the toe. Since a lot of horses aren't getting constant wear like that, it can be very helpful to trim the toe wall back to the waterline to keep the breakover correct. Otherwise your breakover is going to be too long very soon after your trim.

Some do this with a roll, or you can put the nippers perpendicular if you prefer and just take that wall back that way, keeping the bottom flat. Either way, if you simply use the nippers completely flat and don't finish the edge with a rasp, the horse can cut himself on the inside of his legs.

Here's an example of a hoof where you want the breakover back, which you can't do just by trimming the hoof wall down flat in the toe. For this horse I would absolutely trim the wall back to the waterline to help it begin growing down at better angles and to relieve pressure on the stretched laminae. What in my opinion is flexible is how you do that...you can just chop it straight back, or roll it up from the waterline, or round it back from the top as long as you only address the lowest part of the hoof wall and don't rasp higher up.
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post #6 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting. Yes, the why, I get hours of explaining that from both of the farriers and they don't always agree, but they don't know each other, lol. So I decide which theory I like better and I pick that. The one is a rehab farrier, not my personal one, but I have seen her rehab horses that were chronically lame for years and it took her three months to get them sound and riding again. I tend to listen to her more for the trims plus she is more willing to FaceTime whenever I am trimming and she will help me out. My farrier who I've had for decades, differs a little bit from her but not much, but he is way better at applying shoes, he's a little bit fanatical about the fit which I like. I'm very lucky to have both of these skilled farriers helping me out. Of course the end goal is to not need them at all and do it all myself, the trimming I have got down, the shoeing, another season and I think I could do it myself. Well actually I could now if I had to, but I would feel more comfortable going another season with my farrier and having him help me. My hats off to all the people that do this for a living, it is backbreaking labour! And I can only imagine if you had unruly horses to work with, I will only trim horses that are well-mannered. I trim a friend's horses, all are rescues. I warned her before I started, if any of them try to hurt me, or pull away violently, I'm done. She had her kids out there for 2 weeks making sure that those horses were well-behaved, and they were! She has two teenage boys that are into Rodeo, they showed an interest in learning, so I had them do a hoof for two, gave them one of my old rasps and a hoof knife. If they could learn the basics, and one of the boys has a really good eye for balance, they can save this family a lot of money. Right now what they're doing, is still a better job than the previous farrier they had.
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post #7 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 08:10 PM
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I think Gotta has explained well. As usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waresbear View Post
I used to roll the toe, however, both farriers that I work with said no. If you get the break over on the front wall correct, you don't need to roll anything.
Yeah, I agree basically, IF breakover is correct - think it depends on horse's motion & terrain too though, as some need a bit more 'roll' to the edges than others. And to be clear, I think it does look like the outer edge of the sole is where it should be, breakover point is not further back than that. But I am looking at the thickness of the toe wall & the yellow in the laminae, which is making me think it needs a little more help in that area.

Quote:
And yes I thought the outside quarter needed more to come off, however, that's not where his natural balance was, if I took it down, that would come out as the low spot.
Not sure I get what you're meaning there. I feel that quarter walls should not be 'actively' bearing weight, and that keeping them at sole level - wherever that may be for a given foot, balance-wise(I have one pony here ATM who is naturally skewed medial-laterally due to a varus fetlock) - is appropriate.

Quote:
Now the way both farriers taught me to take down the toe, was absolutely not to roll your nippers in any way, but keep them straight and take the toe down.
Yep agree. And if you keep one side of the nips resting on the sole, this will ensure you won't accidentally angle the cut too far. While depending on the situation(long, stretched toe for eg), I do break this rule myself sometimes, in general trimming & in teaching people, I definitely advise not to. Any 'rolling' or bevelling that's needed is done with the rasp, so it's more precise & less likely to go too far.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #8 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Aaah, see that's where you differ from the way I was taught. I was shown by both farriers, to balance the horse all parts of the hoof wall will bear weight equally and not just straight down but how that particular horse lands its foot to the ground. I am guessing, hence the term, natural balance. I will talk to the rehab farrier later on if that's what it means, my farrier is just too crazy busy because he milks cows and does agility training too. Older guy, texting throws him off, lol. Kidding, he can text.
To take down the toe, I was taught to take it down just like you would prep for a shoe, carve it back as long as you don't see blue, you haven't hit a vein or getting close. Of course eyeball the natural balance properly from above first and be conservative when you carve back, then nip off the toe. I will definitely ask about the yellow in the laminae, and see what she says. Thanks again, love this!

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post #9 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 09:25 PM
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Yeah, I don't believe the hoof wall is built for primary load bearing. It should share support, but not BE the support, if you like.

Quote:
To take down the toe, I was taught to take it down just like you would prep for a shoe, carve it back as long as you don't see blue, you haven't hit a vein or getting close. Of course eyeball the natural balance properly from above first and be conservative when you carve back, then nip off the toe.
Firstly, I hope/think you're joking as far as the 'don't see blue' comment - you shouldn't be anywhere near live tissue. Unless digging out seedy toe & then you have to be careful.

As shoes need to be fit to flat grounds surface of walls, as the theory is that the hoof walls should bear the horse, I do believe barefoot horses should be trimmed slightly different to a prep-for-shoe trim.

I'm not sure I understand what you're 'carving back', or 'eyeballing natural balance from above', and what you're 'carving' before you nip?

At any rate, I think these points are all probably small particulars to consider, not major concerns.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #10 of 12 Old 09-19-2019, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Ah it seems like you trim, like I used to. Interesting. I will be talking to the rehab farrier and get back to you in a bit.

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