Founder and the aftermath? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 08-14-2020, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Question Founder and the aftermath?

So this year keeps going from bad to worse!
Just over a month ago my awesome, perfect heart horse foundered. She was on regulated pasture and at a good weight, but still, after two rounds of drugs and x-rays, she is still quite lame with a mild coffin bone rotation in both front hooves. Now on hay in a dry lot 24/7.
She has had a new ferrier out to cut her heels down and her toes back to reduce the laminar wedge and help support the coffin bones and this seems to have improved her mobility quite a bit. I also have new hoof boots in for her to help with some of her discomfort.
My big question is for any of those who have dealt with founder & particularly coffin bone rotations in their horses...
I know that every case is different, but what is the typical outcome?
Have any of you had a horse recover from this to such an extent that they can resume normal, even extensive riding? Or is the outlook only to have her as a casual rider or arena horse?
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post #2 of 33 Old 08-14-2020, 09:39 PM
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It depends on the horse and the residual damage to the interior of the hoof:)

It also depends on just how good the farrier is. Please donít say yours is great:). Maybe he is but I found out how great a great farrier trimming healthy hooves is NOT when it comes to rehabbing seriously foundered hooves.

Iíve had a certified therapeutic farrier trimming my horses for the last 3-1/2 years. The difference she has made with my foundered horse is nothing short of a miracle.

In my horseís case, he would be able to do light trail riding, on an established easy trail, for an hour, MAYBE two, if he didnít also have a sacrum that he has fractured twice. Needless to say he is a much loved pasture pet:)

He is in special shoes ( Natural Balance PLR) with wedges that have frog pads on them, and she Went back to pouring VetTecís Equi-Thane CS onto the soul. She had been using a silly putty type substance (I think itís ShuFil) but the VetTec Equi-Thane does a much better job of keeping him comfortable.


To reiterate, for as bad as the residual damage is, he could be lightly ridden, were it not for his twice-fracture sacrum.

Hope this helps:)
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post #3 of 33 Old 08-14-2020, 09:50 PM
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Have you heard of a product called Hoof Cinch ? You can google it and find quite a bit of info on it. I've seen it on commercials on Steve Lanvit shows and others and also seen interviews with the founder. If I had a foundered horse after attacking the root cause of the founder I would give it a try. They indicate with the use of it your horse is sound to use it 12-14 weeks.
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post #4 of 33 Old 08-14-2020, 10:27 PM
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I know three foundered horses that recovered to pasture soundness. All of them did have a great farrier, and were micromanaged.

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post #5 of 33 Old 08-15-2020, 12:04 AM
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I just want to say how sorry I am to hear this news. I know you give your horse optimal care, so one wonders how this could have happened. Wishing you the best , CC
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post #6 of 33 Old 08-15-2020, 04:39 AM
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Firstly, haven't dealt with 'founder' in my own horses, but have dealt with 'low grade laminitis' & IR in a couple of mine, and have dealt with many & varied degrees of laminitis/founder in client's horses. And 'typical outcome' is 'it depends'. Depends how chronic the problems & distortions in the hooves are as to whether/how long it takes to get them completely over it. Depends on the causes & whether this can be completely 'corrected' - Eg. I have one friend I had to just quit trimming for, because she WILL NOT SEE that her horses are obese & do not need the barrels of feed she throws at them, despite the fact that they both become laminitic EVERY YEAR and she spends a fortune on the vets, who also tell her her horses are obese...

But then, there are owners that diligently do everything within their power & the horse still has probs, due to hind gut damage, disease(PPID for eg) or some such. And then there are the horses who are rescued or otherwise simply 'too far gone' by the time the problems are addressed, and many of these will only make it back to 'paddock sound' without boots. A few I've come across are too far gone for even that, and unfortunately I've had a couple of clients who ended up putting their horse down because it was constantly suffering with little chance of getting substantially better. But these days, with the knowledge we have, it's actually a rare case that horses can't at least be brought back to paddock soundness, and very many get back to true soundness & being able to work comfortably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilruffian View Post
after two rounds of drugs and x-rays, she is still quite lame with a mild coffin bone rotation in both front hooves. Now on hay in a dry lot 24/7.
Drugs, as in bute may well be a 'necessary evil' but as it is known to cause gut damage & that damage can *cause* laminitis, so perpetuate or worsen the problem! So I'd suggest that the horse is on bute or such for as little time as absolutely necessary. Ensure that she has yielding footing &/or padded feet(highly recommend Easycare Cloud boots if you're in the market but not bought any yet) and that she is in an environment she can walk if she likes, but doesn't feel compelled. Ensure she has a place she is comfortable lying down, to get off her feet completely when needed. Then you should be able to eliminate the drugs. I'd also be giving her gut support/repair supps, to try to counter any damage.

People(including vets not well versed in nutrition) often say get the horse off grass and onto grass hay. This is not necessarily bad advice in the least, but as a 'blanket statement' without consideration for all factors, it is not necessarily helpful. That's because grass does not lose sugar content after it's cut & dried - that means that if your hay came from a 'rich' field, it may well be just as sugary, even more so, than the paddock you're keeping your horse off! Depends on type of grass, maturity of grass, how it's grown, even weather & time of day it's cut, as it gains sugars with photosynthesis. But with hay, at least if it is rich, you can soak & drain it before feeding, to leach out some of the sugars.

And nutritional balance is very important for health, esp regarding 'founder'. Particularly look into supping extra magnesium & chromium, especially if you think IR or rich feed could have been behind it. And ensure iron & potassium levels are kept relatively low. You may have discovered these, but there are a couple of great websites, particularly helpful for understanding how diet & nutrition impacts. They are safergrass.org and ecirhorse.com

Quote:
She has had a new ferrier out to cut her heels down and her toes back to reduce the laminar wedge
Yes, vital that mechanics are corrected, and if heels are high, being the cause of 'rotation', they do need to come down, but should be done gradually. Stretched toes however, can be brought back/relieved to the 'ideal' amount immediately & for the sake of the horse's comfort, as well as how quickly healing can happen, it should be done ASAP. ELPO guidelines are sound principles, to learn how to 'map' the feet & work out precise a/p(front to back) balance. The only 'condition' to following those guidelines is if your horse has a very pronounced 'ski tip' due to the founder being very chronic & severe, in which case you may need to leave the toe a little longer. You said you have xrays though, so you/the farrier should know precisely how much toe can go.

You're welcome to (first see the link in my signature for what's needed) pist hoof photos & the rads, if you'd like any specific opinions/feedback.
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post #7 of 33 Old 08-15-2020, 05:15 AM
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ksbowman I just googled the hoof cinch. Very interesting - essentially just a hose clamp type thing & I can't understand how it would work. Have emailed the co for more info.
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post #8 of 33 Old 08-15-2020, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbowman View Post
Have you heard of a product called Hoof Cinch ? You can google it and find quite a bit of info on it. I've seen it on commercials on Steve Lanvit shows and others and also seen interviews with the founder. If I had a foundered horse after attacking the root cause of the founder I would give it a try. They indicate with the use of it your horse is sound to use it 12-14 weeks.

I have a Hoof Cinch I will send free with prepaid postage. I did not personally witness any positive results.


A product called the Steward Clog https://shopedss.com/edss-steward-horse-hoof-clog/ provided almost instant comfort to my horse which allowed the removal of all medications.


I used a direct to the hoof attachment for two courses but having the foot entirely covered for that period of time was problematic to my thinking.


I wound up removing the tread from Scootboots and attaching a clog with four sheet rock screws down through the boot and into the clog.


A closed cell neoprene pad of about the same density of the easycare firm eva pad is used inside the boot and lasts much much longer than the eva pad.


The clogs will last 4-8 weeks or possibly longer depending on the amount of movement and the terrain.



Here are some links to bring you up to date.


https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-trim.php


This applies to founder rotation as well.


https://www.hoofrehab.com/HoofCapsuleRotation.html


And this: FAQ: Rehabilitating the feet after laminitis - The Laminitis Site
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post #9 of 33 Old 08-15-2020, 09:04 AM
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There is also a condition called acidosis of the hindgut that is often present as the cause of founder. One research company has produced a buffer that is coated allowing it to reach the hindgut before dissolving that helps to return the hindgut to it's normal not acidic state.


https://shop.ker.com/products/equish...ant=1071464784
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post #10 of 33 Old 08-15-2020, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
I have a Hoof Cinch I will send free with prepaid postage. I did not personally witness any positive results.
I'm sure I'll soon get the 'sell' on it from the co, as I asked, but care to tell more? Is it, as it appears, essentially just a hose clamp screwed to the hoof wall? If so, what's the theory of how it's meant to work?
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