Is this Foundering? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 11:11 AM
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Have you had her seen by a vet to diagnose if she has any joint issues? Her conformation and the fact that she didn't have regular hoof care for the first few years of her life might have caused some issues.
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post #12 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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okay is her conformation really that bad? These responses are making me feel like she is really messed up or something.
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post #13 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 12:27 PM
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She doesn't have ideal forelegs--the photos make it hard to tell for sure because she's not standing well in any of them, but it looks like she's over at the knee and there are some structural issues going on. In some photos they look worse than others, but something's not right. She looks sore in the way she stands; one foreleg ahead and camped out behind. It's possible neglected hooves caused issues as she grew; but the good thing is she's not that old, so proper hoof care and perhaps some chiropractic care can still help put her on the right path. Her saddle also doesn't appear to fit well, which can cause issues, too.

The photo of the bottom of her hoof is after the farrier came out? That looks like a hoof several weeks overdue for a trim. The heels and bars are overgrown, pressing into the sole of the foot. I have seen horses very lame from feet like that. Get those heels and bars trimmed back and take the pressure off, and she may be much more comfortable.

Can you get some photos of her standing well straight from the front, and then straight from the side without a saddle?
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Last edited by SilverMaple; 08-30-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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post #14 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
Founder is the extreme stage of laminitis where the coffin/pedal bone has been forced out of place by changes in the hoof resulting from untreated inflammation
By the time a horse gets to that phase its going to be noticeably lame and unable to even stand correctly
The last bit - no that's not necessarily correct, depends on specifics & depends on the horse. Some can have massive distortion before becoming obviously lame.

To the first bit, depends on your definition - founder & laminitis are often used interchangeably - founder being the more lay term & laminitis the 'formal' medical one - eg you can have laminitis with or without distortion/rotation etc.

But a common definition is to call laminitis the the inflammation/initial damage stage, and founder being the mechanical changes that can come out of it, *or come about due to chronic mismanagement of feet, in absence of classic laminitis symptoms.

Therefore, given the above, we could call op's horse a mild chronic founder case. It may also be classed as sub clinical(meaning not obviously lame) laminitic.

There may or may not be systemic/metabolic probs that are exacerbating it, but given lack of hoofcare before op and obvious substantial overgrowth now(how long you had horse & had feet done 6 weekly btw?), I'm guessing the vast majority of the problem at least is mechanics.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #15 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by madisonjo View Post
okay is her conformation really that bad? These responses are making me feel like she is really messed up or something.
As I tried to convey, we really can't tell much from a few pics with her not standing square etc, can only guess. Thats why i said not assuming but just questioning. She looks obviously uncomfortable to me and with overgrown, sensitive heels, this could well account for 'over at the knee' and will likely not be a permanent fixture anyway - a lot of 'conformation' like this is but a moment in time, it is postural & changeable. IF she were actually vars at the knees or had other joint deformation, that is something that isn't really fixable, but also depending on degree & what you want her for, not necessarily problematic either.

Re little feet for her size, yes unfortunately, 'dainty' feet are something a lot of modern halter qh's are bred for, along with the overmuscling, 'posty' back legs & 'diaper butt' look. It is purely for cosmetics - some think this looks nice - and these things can indeed cause problems, esp if you want the horse to be athletic, be able to put in good day's work. FWIW, your horse does look 'heavy built' but not ridiculously so, or overly straight behind, or overly tiny feet(tho once all that flaring grows out...), in as much as can be told from those few pics. Would need better conform pics to give a more accurate idea tho.

So that was a long winded way of saying don't stress about the few comments here
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #16 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulefeather View Post
Have you had her seen by a vet to diagnose if she has any joint issues? Her conformation and the fact that she didn't have regular hoof care for the first few years of her life might have caused some issues.
Ditto ^^^

Just looking at how the mare stands with the left hind forward, tells me she may have some sort of pain issue on the back end.

Here hooves were atrocious in those first pictures. If the farrier took all that off in one swipe, which I hope he didn't, she is likely going to now be sore from that as well.

If she is, buy some hoof hardener to paint her soles (NOT the frogs) with. Durasole or Keretex are both good.

She could also be sensitive enough that, taking too much hoof and heel MIGHT result in sore tendons -- something that is more common than people realize when a farrier gets too over-zealous about whacking all the excess hoof off, in one fell swoop.

I would really consider having a vet that is also a chiropractor look at her and, were she mine, I would not ride her until a vet gives the ok:)
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post #17 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Here are some more photos I just took. Couldn’t get her squared up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 605BCD51-1FEB-4F86-A6EE-CBC981B518B2_1535671318140.jpg (81.0 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg D28CE2EF-2D6D-4B20-979D-62C2CA56D14A_1535671346875.jpg (58.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 06C3E1CB-5BAC-4E0F-9ED7-BFAC32E90EB3_1535671369443.jpg (57.1 KB, 6 views)
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post #18 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverMaple View Post
The photo of the bottom of her hoof is after the farrier came out? That looks like a hoof several weeks overdue for a trim.
And this too - I wouldn't assume he's not done a good job, not knowing what the farrier started with, or whether he's done more than 1-2 trims on her, but I would question - wouldn't assume he's good either. Check out the thread link in my signature for some sources to learn more about feets.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #19 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 07:29 PM
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post #20 of 22 Old 08-30-2018, 07:32 PM
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1st pic above isn't ideal but not too bad, to show there aren't obviously terrible 'conformation faults' IMO. Last 2 angles no good for judging anything. Check out the 'sticky' post in the conformation subforums for what angle pics needed.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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