HELP! hole being eaten in hooves?! - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 49 Old 11-23-2016, 12:48 AM
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Retained sole, in those first pictures with the hole?????
You asked what was wrong, what could cause a hole, =well thins soles certainly are a prime suspect, thrush does not invade the sole, creating a hole
My equine vet, now 80, has also been a life long horseman, starting his own running AQHA horses, and TBs, well into his seventies.
He has, also, at the same time, studied latest hoof research, does re rehabilitative trimming himself, and I see him at all the equine seminars, keeping up on latest research, while many of the other local vets, much younger then him, are never seen there
Why bother posting this info? Because time spent in a field, alone does not create expertise, but time spent along with continued education does
You only have to visit the average general Practitioner (Doctor) quite a few years out of med school, who has gotten so busy in his practice, he never bothers to update himself with any latest research, to be aware of this fact, if at all knowledgeable about the medical field

Not saying your farrier is not wonderful, but years alone doing his job, having horses, by itself, does not impress me . Believe me, I have gone that route, blindly trusting some farrier, because he was the'expert', and it took my favorite horse becoming lame, for me to finally seek more than basic hoof knowledge
Good luck, but your rant was un called for. You asked for opinions, and got them, with best of intentions. Not what you wanted to hear, but healthy hooves don't get holes like that, nor do their soles look carved out.
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post #42 of 49 Old 11-23-2016, 02:43 AM
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Who's user profile has Jack Nicholson yelling "You want the truth?? You can't handle the truth!!"....
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post #43 of 49 Old 11-23-2016, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
you still don't seem to get that it's all related. The general state of your horse's feet govern how susceptible they are to infection, as well as other issues, so if they're terribly balanced, unhealthy feet, then THAT IS part of 'what caused a hole to form'!

Ditto this. The answers arent always what you want to hear. Sometimes, the wrong question is asked. Experienced people will answer the right answer to the wrong question.

This kind of shoddy work breeds constant hoof problems. They wont stop until the health and trim of the foot is improved over a period of time. Horses don't generally abscess over and over from stomping stones. They abscess from shoddy farrier work/thin soles/metabolic issues primarily.

I do think there was probably false sole at some point from the looks of things (still appears to be some maybe in one foot, but super trimmed out short in other and still long toes low heels...hard to tell for sure) Probably solar bruising all over. That hole looks like a sole abscess blowout to me in the path of least resistance which just happened to be the frog tip area. Good luck.
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post #44 of 49 Old 11-25-2016, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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i do get that they are related. what irritates me is that im hearing how horrid my horses feet look when most horses are on 8 week SHOEING cycles sometimes 10 weeks. some goes 6 months without trims and go this way their ENTIRE LIVES and yet they have no issues and yet my horses who are on 4-6 week cycles. we have asked other farriers who we know and they say they are "balanced" as in what they would do. the ELPO farrier in my area has done things i would NEVER consider acceptable.

i do agree with the thrush and sorry i missed the comments. im used to thrush being gooey and tary and that has not been any of the hooves so i did not think thrush. considering his stall is bone dry and hooves picked daily.

THIS is what's considered acceptable. we trim our own. its hard when there is not a lot of hoof growth to balance. im having a hard time seeing them as unhealthy as horses out here have hooves that look like this and its considered healthy and normally and they have NO issues but mine are not QUITE right and they have issues.

he did not have the best trim last time because of the abscess. he could not stand on it too long. also we are trying to get heal growth to limiting the amount we remove whine trying to keep the toe back.

the farriers and vet thing his feet look "great" so im getting ALOT of mixed signals.
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post #45 of 49 Old 11-25-2016, 07:29 PM
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There was a reason I came back to OK from AZ.
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post #46 of 49 Old 11-25-2016, 08:07 PM
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In defense of ELPO, an ELPO certified farrier or trimmer DID NOT say those feet were balanced or looked good.

I don't doubt that you were TOLD so and so was an ELPO trimmer but he was NOT.

Please don't knock a great organization like ELPO who has helped so many including me on something you were TOLD.

Here is a list of all certified farriers in Arizona. It'll likely paste all crooked but the names will be there.



Ryan Holzer Scottsdale AZ
85262

USA

605-391-4732

Yes Yes Yes Yes No
Gene Ovnicek Whitman/NW Phoenix AZ
85361

USA

719-429-4693

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
R. Tyler Basinger Benson AZ
85602

USA

520-507-5884

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Chris Bouchikas Herford AZ
85615

USA

520-255-4998

Yes Yes Yes Yes No
Shawn Fimbres St. David AZ
85630

USA

520-216-0708

Yes Yes Yes No No
Brandon Nunn Cortaro AZ
85652

USA

520-360-9134

Yes Yes Yes Yes No
Eddie McKenzie Tucson AZ
85736

USA

520-327-7437

Yes Yes Yes Yes No
Kenny Welch Tuba City AZ
86045

USA

928-401-6985

Yes Yes Yes Yes No
Michael Zabinski Prescott (to Tucson) AZ
86305

USA

208-859-0778

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Linda Black Prescott (to Tucson) AZ
86305

USA

208-440-1907

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Willie Begay Pinon AZ
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post #47 of 49 Old 11-25-2016, 08:18 PM
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I know you are doing what you can, and have professionals telling you the hooves look great. Let me just comment, on what I believe, it was Dr Robert Bowker said,
, but have no time to look up the source for sure. Anyway, the comment was, that hooves that are NOT normal, far as what is now known, since advances in hoof research, are seen so commonly, that they are accepted as 'normal'
Dr Bowker, who besides, doing research in hooves, for over a decade, also taught at the University of Michigan, and stated that veterinary texts,far as hoof knowledge, are out dated
Having seen your horse's hoof pictures, along with knowledge I have learned over the last ten year, I do not consider them as looking 'fine', sorry
Charlie's dry lot, where she spends at least half her time, is much more abrasive then what you have your horses on, yet do not chip, do not abscess. She has lots of sole depth, short toe walls, and low heels, although the heel on her club foot is somewhat higher
You don't ride your horses, they are older, so doing what you are doing, keeping them comfortable, might be the best route. Good luck!
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post #48 of 49 Old 11-25-2016, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Who's user profile has Jack Nicholson yelling "You want the truth?? You can't handle the truth!!"....

that would be Speed Racer, I think.
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post #49 of 49 Old 11-25-2016, 09:56 PM
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When a proper balanced trim is done, the retained sole will be gone, and I bet all the infections, blow outs, etc., will be too. The retained sole is held in there by overgrown, embedded bars and can cause bruising and abscesses all on their own. It's a vicious cycle.
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