Hoof crack (and gravel?) - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 61 Old 06-25-2019, 05:08 PM
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Have never heard of grass cracks ,thats a new one to me.
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post #52 of 61 Old 06-25-2019, 06:56 PM
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The authors of The Essential Hoof Book don't even use the term seedy toe. Not even in the index. They have a large section on WLD and various stages. They do talk about infected hoof cracks as a sort of isolated area of infection. I think they avoided the term seedy toe as a colloquial non medical term. Since the book is intended for the average horse owner, I was surprised they did not include the term with the explanation that it was a form of WLD, which of course should be WLI.



Along with the Oxine that Pete Ramey also recommends, he also uses 1.5 ounces of concentrated Lysol to one gallon of water. That results in a mixture that costs about 50 cents per gallon. Or less, I'd have to look. He has been using that for years and years. 30 minutes soak time. Swears by it.
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I think it important to always be mindful that the horse actually owes us nothing at all and it is we who owe the horse. "It's a goal"
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post #53 of 61 Old 06-27-2019, 04:46 PM
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Aren't grass cracks from horses who are on pasture? The grass is wet and dewy in the morning, then it dries out by the end of the day, this repeated cycle can cause cracking.

Interesting about the origin of the name seedy toe. I can see how grass cracks can turn into seedy toe!

My gelding who had the really poor feet ended up getting grass cracks from being out on pasture during the part of the year where the grass is growing. Previously he was on pasture but it was either dry the whole time, or wet the whole time so there were no cracks. His feet have been through a lot in the past year, they were in very poor condition when I got him. Where the cracks stop is right about where he started getting a different vitamin so I suspect influenced his hoof growth and that section was less prone to cracking from the moisture changes.

They are vertical cracks that form starting at the toe, though on my horse they started about 1/4 in up from the toe and went up about 1/4-1/2in.

Here's a pic
Teaching Diablo to Jump-img_20190603_172555287.jpg
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post #54 of 61 Old 06-27-2019, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filou View Post
Aren't grass cracks from horses who are on pasture? The grass is wet and dewy in the morning, then it dries out by the end of the day, this repeated cycle can cause cracking.

Interesting about the origin of the name seedy toe. I can see how grass cracks can turn into seedy toe!
Yeah I think 'grass crack' came about because people believed that's what caused cracks. It isn't, tho constant wet footing can be.

Seedy Toe is an Australian term for it, which is no doubt why it's not in Hondo's American book. When I first came to this forum many from over the sea had never heard the term, & many over here don't know the term WLD, which is the American label for it.

It was only a number of years ago I learned it was called 'seedy' because of grass seeds getting into cavernous infections. Before that I thought it was about our colloquial term for illness of any kind; Had a big night, now I'm feeling seedy.... Eew, that wound looks seedy!

Yes Filou, I too would guess the 'superficial' cracks in the picture are likely nutritional. But they can still become infected & become 'real', so just keep an eye on that too.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #55 of 61 Old 06-27-2019, 06:35 PM
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@Filou Those aren't really cracks. Pete Ramey refers to them as 'fissures'. They're simply symptoms of wet/dry weather. Even the best hooves get that, but they do require some attention. Pete Ramey has a spot in his DVD where he talks about those, while 'finishing' a trim. He lightly rasps over them with a finishing rasp in order to prevent infection from sitting in there, but only does that when the weather is supposed to remain dry for a long time and there's no chance of the fissures reforming quickly. (Otherwise you'd just be rasping off hoof wall only to have the problem come back, where you rasp off more hoof wall only to have the problem come back...you see the pattern.) If you want to treat those fissures, you can put a little triodine over them, but DO NOT oil the hooves or seal them! Those fissures need access to air so that nothing gets trapped inside of them. I'd be more concerned about the horizontal rippling in the hoof wall - looks like that's new? Has his diet changed? That usually indicates areas where the laminae have tightened and released due to sugar overload and various diet changes. Iron and sugar overload are the two things you really want to avoid for better hooves, and then make sure vitamins and minerals are balanced with access to good forage. Other than that, the wall growth looks pretty straight from the side. I'd be interested in seeing more photos of those hooves. I'm wondering if those heels are high and putting torque on the toe wall (that could also influence wet-to-dry weather cracking.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
The authors of The Essential Hoof Book don't even use the term seedy toe...
This might be why 'seedy toe' isn't mentioned. It's not necessarily WLD. I read somewhere that the term seedy toe was originally coined in draft horses that worked fields or were on pasture often. Draft horses typically, on the bottom of the hoof, have a 'carina' (sp?) in the toe, or a divot. (That shape is actually mirrored in the coffin bone, according to Pete Ramey.) That visible divot on the bottom of the hoof can become stuffed full of dirt and grass seeds, so draft horses would literally be growing grass out of their hooves...back in the day. And yes, this could cause a WLD type infection, but it in and of itself is not WLD. My mare is half Shire and gets those carinas in damp weather...gotta keep em clean. I'll likely try a hoof wall sealant of some sort this year and see if they come back or not. (Edit: @loosie jumpin in ahead of me here )

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...bein-Pferd.jpg
(See pt. 8 for the 'carina' I'm talking about.)
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No diet, no hoof. No hoof, no horse. No horse is not an option!
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post #56 of 61 Old 06-27-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Feathers7 View Post
@Filou Those aren't really cracks. Pete Ramey refers to them as 'fissures'.
Just being pedantic here I know, but... look up the meaning of the word 'fissure'. I had a boss once, who banned the word 'should' - he was into 'self improvement' & thought the word unhelpful & loaded... but he used the word 'ought' all the time.

Quote:
seedy toe was originally coined in draft horses that worked fields or were on pasture often. Draft horses typically, on the bottom of the hoof, have a 'carina' (sp?) in the toe, or a divot. (That shape is actually mirrored in the coffin bone, according to Pete Ramey.) That visible divot on the bottom of the hoof can become stuffed full of dirt and grass seeds, so draft horses would literally be growing grass out of their hooves...back in the day. And yes, this could cause a WLD type infection, but it in and of itself is not WLD. My mare is half Shire and gets those carinas in damp weather...gotta keep em clean. I'll likely try a hoof wall sealant of some sort this year and see if they come back or not.
Ah, interesting. Makes sense if it comes from drafts, who not only traditionally worked in fields, but who are, sadly, more often than not left to have 'splat' feet.

That 'divot' in the tip of P3 is called a 'crena' or 'crenna'. Not all horses have this, but all types can, to some degree or other, not just drafts. It may well relate to a slight 'dip' in the shape of the sole, but it does not cause an actual hole, WLD, certainly not big cracks. They ARE caused by 'environmental factors'.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #57 of 61 Old 06-27-2019, 08:11 PM
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Ok @Filou , looks like no one is gonna ask "what vitamin?" so I will.


What vitamin?
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I think it important to always be mindful that the horse actually owes us nothing at all and it is we who owe the horse. "It's a goal"
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post #58 of 61 Old 06-28-2019, 02:04 PM
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Oh, if yall are interested I have a journal following this horse's story, as well as regularly put pictures in my albums on my profile of both horses feet.
https://www.horseforum.com/member-jo...o-jump-801293/
The hoof pic comparison start on page 7 and 8. In a few months I'll have had him for a full year and I'll be posting a full line up of his hoof pics and progress.

The ripple you are seeing is from his transition in being stalled from an injury to being out on spring pasture. He was also urinating a bunch, so no doubt he had excess sugars. Sugar pasture is gone now, next year I'm planning to try HEIRO for a couple months while the spring grass comes in to see if that helps. I've used it before with good results.

He gets pasture, they throw alfalfa out there once or twice a day, and other than that he gets MVP brand Mega Cell and Mag 5,000 as constants and other stuff throughout the year (sometimes I give oil over winter, and now we are stepping up work he's getting MSM and might put a joint supp in the mix)

I suspect it will still be about another year before he's got really healthy feet, they have been through a lot. Even though I'm responsible for all his hoof growth on his hoof currently, the new stuff growing in was affected by the old, so it's not perfect.
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post #59 of 61 Old 06-28-2019, 03:46 PM
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And as usual these types of threads are super informative and thought inducing... additionally make me a little paranoid -.-
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post #60 of 61 Old 06-28-2019, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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I know. And to think I just thought it was little cracks. Horses are too fragile!
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