Long toes underrun Heels on young horse. - Page 13 - The Horse Forum
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post #121 of 171 Old 10-21-2018, 11:59 PM
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Nearly bowed out of this one, but it seems now you do care enough to put your horses welfare above riding, so i am back.

Sorry bucky but a couple of things I disagree with in what you said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyGold View Post
top red line is about where break over should be, or where the hoof should stop touching the ground.
That line is quite a way forward of the breakover point. Highly recommend you go study all the stuff on lamenessprevention.org. Then study it all again. I find with studying, if you take notes, write out for yourself the important principles & guidelines, they sink in far better than just reading them... Then you should understand enough of the whys & wherefores to 'map' the foot reasonably accurately. *That said, going off photos, as you said bucky, should only be taken as a rough idea regardless.

Quote:
So instead of your knees I kneeled down on one knee and placed the hoof on my leg perpendicular.
Esp with a 'difficult' horse, I would not at all advise to do it on your knees, or rest a foot on your knee. Too dangerous. It's harder on your back, but stay on your feet, so you can get out of the way fast, if needed. Keep your body in contact with the horse, so you can feel his little signs of niggling. Bit dont lean into the horse either, but support yourself so you wont lose balance if he moves in a hurry. If you need to put a hoof against your leg, do it in such a way it will brush off & you're likely only to get bruised if he stomps down, kicks away or such.

Quote:
TELL him that's what you need done, YOU are his employer, YOU are paying the person, GIVE him the instructions.
Yes, while many farriers somehow disagree with this concept, the owner is the employer, farrier the employee. And in so saying, to some degree at least, they should do as the owner asks. BUT...

Firstly, telling a pro how to 'suck eggs' is not likely to go down well. Depending how you put it, you could find yourself without any farrier. He may feel you're too rude & unreasonable to work for. And farriers talk to each other, so others may be unwilling after that too. Especially if you presume you shouldn't pay him for the job he's done.

Secondly, especially as a novice to the job yourself OP, if the farrier did take your specific orders, despite feeling it was the wrong thing to do, I believe that would be very wrong of him. It would be like me employing a builder because I didn't know about building & then telling him I want him to use less supports, thinner timber etc. If he did this against his better judgement and my house fell down, that would be his fault too, as the professional who did a shoddy job.

So... I think a better approach would be to have a conversation with him about what you want & why, and ASK if he will do those things. He can explain what he thinks of your specifics, why he will or won't do them, then you can decide whether to LET HIM DO HIS JOB or not.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #122 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 12:26 AM
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So... keeping in mind what I said about lines on pics should only be taken as rough... particularly only having one single photo.... Particularly with my extremely shoddy lines as I'm on my phone, small, poor pic here, can't even draw straight or measure...

Attached is approx where I'd put heel line, midline(approx 3/4-1" from apex of frog, widest point of sole, termination of bars, frog bulge...) & therefore breakover.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2018-10-22_15.04.42.jpg (124.4 KB, 31 views)

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #123 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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@loosie I'm not going to tell farrier how to do his job i will ask him if he could please take bars down,but i'm not going to demand it. He's a reasonable guy and easy to talk to deal with. Either way he will trim horse,and will be payed. I feel i'm not in the position, to be telling him how to trim,i don't honestly know enough. He's kind enough to deal with my horse and for most part doesn't charge extra,even though horse is less than well behaved.


No i won't get myself in a position where i could be knocked down or stepped on. Horse doesn't like feet being rasped on he will and does pull feet away. Will rear and on backs will kick ,so yeah not a horse you kneel down and rest his hoof on your leg. I don't trust him holding him for farrier.

Just saw your post with drawing on hoof. I know it's not a for sure thing going off one picture will have more tomorrow. Kids will be back in school,so i will have more time. Thank you loosie.
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post #124 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 01:03 AM
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@loosie thanks for coming back into this one. I think I'm going to back out of this thread for a bit, having a lot of stress lately and need time to cool off. I didn't know if you had chosen to stay out of it or not, you hadn't posted in a while and I didn't know if you were coming back or not so in case you didn't I drew what looked right and I'm glad you corrected me so I can learn more. I won't claim to be a professional and probably won't be for years. Just trying to help a concerned horse owner the best way I could.

OP those hoof boots I posted are the cheapest boots and don't stay on well I only bought them because I was rock bottom poor but my guy still needed comfort. I'd recommend easy boot products, more pricey but well worth it. If my guy ever gets foot sore again I'd definitely buy these epic hoof boots or do glue ons with sole support such as these photos below.
I'll admit I had gotten frustrated reading some of your replies but I didn't want to give up helping you because you're still on this forum, you still want to try and I respect that. Here's some decent boots.
To size your horse hooves do it shortly after the trim, from the bottom measure the widest part horizontally and vertically and each boot brand will have their own size chart for you to look at. The onse with the metal are HELL to get on but man are they tough!
Best of luck
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File Type: jpg Screenshot_2018-10-21-22-58-29_1540184454556.jpg (20.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot_2018-10-21-22-58-50_1540184466988.jpg (20.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot_2018-10-21-22-59-16_1540184481543.jpg (20.5 KB, 1 views)
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post #125 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 01:56 AM
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I will just say that those particular boots (Epics) never stayed on my horse at speed, and broke down very quickly around the elasticised sections in the fetlock. Other people might have had better experiences. (The Cavallos look sturdier and handier, but have never tried them.) I've got an active, overstriding horse who can catch himself sometimes, around corners or in mud, and when I tried pricier, but better constructed, boots (Renegades in my case), these worked A1 for us. (NB Both sets of boots fitted properly, it was a design problem for my situation. You'd have to find what works for your horse (assuming the hoof angles permit successful use). If endurance riders are frequently using a particular type of boot without hassles, it's worth looking at that - a lot of hoof boots, to me, are designed mostly for "plodding" on a horse in a sedate manner.)

More here, economic comparisons included, and a whole lot of stuff around this topic:

https://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care...post1970588429
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post #126 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyGold View Post
didn't I drew what looked right and I'm glad you corrected me so I can learn more.
Glad you took it as I intended - didn't mean to 'come down on you' or anything. You do seem to have a good grasp of stuff overall.

Ditto to comments about boots too. I think Rambo's probs are likely about fitting, as much as it may also be due to extreme riding - assuming they did fit well, appropriate type etc, it would have to be very hard riding over limestone or such to greatly reduce the mileage. Although sounds like mileage is big too.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #127 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 03:27 AM
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Epics have done me(& many of my clients) very well. So have Gloves. They have literally lasted years & stayed put in almost all situations. I did have a horse who twisted his hind feet & would twist off Gloves, and there have been clients who also had issues due to brushing, extreme riding, jumping etc. As said, they don't work for all.

However, these days I don't gallop everywhere & jump everything like I used to, so can't say from personal experience how they'd last my horses for that. And yes, on really rough trails the gaiters are known to break down, so something like Renegades would likely be more appropriate there. But OP said it was the soles that 'fell apart' so...

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #128 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Hate the easy boot epics gators don't hold up. Cavallo boots velcro is trashed with in a week, they don't hold up to mud water which are trail consist of this year. Plus cavallo don't hold up sole wise about 2 weeks and trashed. So if his feet are in better shape after trim here this week. If booted with sole support could he be ridden ?on an easy ride like some trotting and walking on grass trails? Or does he need the rest of year off?

It's killing me not being able to ride, it's pure torture i'm going crazy on this beautiful sunny day.
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post #129 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo99 View Post
Hate the easy boot epics gators don't hold up. Cavallo boots velcro is trashed with in a week, they don't hold up to mud water which are trail consist of this year. Plus cavallo don't hold up sole wise about 2 weeks and trashed. So if his feet are in better shape after trim here this week. If booted with sole support could he be ridden ?on an easy ride like some trotting and walking on grass trails? Or does he need the rest of year off?

It's killing me not being able to ride, it's pure torture i'm going crazy on this beautiful sunny day.

What about an in-hand trail walk? You can work on lots of leading, suppling, etc. using obstacles you find out on the trail. Still gives their brain a workout.
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post #130 of 171 Old 10-22-2018, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egrogan View Post
What about an in-hand trail walk? You can work on lots of leading, suppling, etc. using obstacles you find out on the trail. Still gives their brain a workout.
Heading out to do the in hand trail walk now. Got more pictures but will load them here later,off to go for a walk with horse.
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