Long toes underrun Heels on young horse. - Page 9 - The Horse Forum
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post #81 of 171 Old 10-13-2018, 06:26 PM
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@rambo99 , trimming isn't my favourite thing in the world either! I have a pre-existing back injury, and I can't for the life of me find my misplaced back brace I should be wearing when trimming. I do have access to a good farrier, but he's retired now. He's still happy to trim in the middle of summer when my horses' hooves are like marble, or if I have an injury (like the broken foot recently), but he says, "You're doing a good job, you trim so I can go fishing!" I know what the other farriers in the area are like - the horses' feet in this region generally look shocking - and would rather trim myself.

It would be lovely if one of us had a helicopter and could fly over and mentor you in person. That's always so helpful, and so stress-reducing for the person trying to learn. Are there any barefoot trimmers in your area who might do that for you?

If you use the rasp to start with, you can't do accidental damage - just like when filing your fingernails. However, rasping is hard work, and nipping off the obvious overgrowth first will save you a lot of sweat and sore arms. (You're going to have such toned arms from doing your own rasping though, you may as well cancel your gym membership! ) If you post photos of the underside of your horse's hooves with the shoes off, we might be able to see some guideposts for you. Some horses are very "trim along the dotted line" and easy - some are a bit less obvious.

Did someone discuss farriery tools that make things easy versus a pain in the neck? @gottatrot was talking about that on a recent thread, maybe she could link to it? She gave an excellent description of the sort of nippers that will make your life easy. Also I must mention that I had a really bad type of standard rasp from the horse equipment store when I started, and when the farrier let me try his, I was amazed how easy it was in comparison. He also showed me how to sharpen my own rasp, which he will do after every 5 horses or so, and it makes all the difference in the world. And I recommend leather gloves, long sleeves and nice sturdy jeans for trimming. I've got a scar on my left arm from slipping with a hoof knife when I started! It was summer and I was in a T-shirt because I hate getting overheated...

I think the whole question of boots can't be revisited until your horse has reasonable feet, and that's going to take time. Successful use of hoof boots depends so much on having healthy hoof angles and relatively short hooves - like mustangs in the wild. Do you have any soft footing you can ride on while your horse is getting rehabilitated?

Good luck, best wishes, don't give up, you're a trooper to take this on and it will be a bit intimidating at first, and perhaps even incredibly frustrating at the start, but we've all been there. I'm hereby going to give you a little booklet of ten free ranting vouchers, redeemable anytime, for when you run into confusion, difficulty or whatever. If that happens, rant away! I will lend you my (virtual) ears. And there's a heap of people on your thread who will continue to support and encourage you.

SueC is time travelling.
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post #82 of 171 Old 10-13-2018, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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@SueC Well i hope the nippers & rasp i bought are good ones should be i paid a small fortune for them. Yep i'll do pictures but you know me the pictures will be less the great. Plus i'm slow to finally get pics and get them posted with 4 kids. Nothing is done when i say i'll do it someone always, needs me for something it seems.

Yeah have trails with softer footing right now because it's so wet. Rode this evening got home about dark time, 3 hour ride with a friend so we could ride like we wanted fast.

Ok i'll hold you to the listening ear when i need to rant about trimming. No there are no barefoot trimmer that could or would mentor me so i'm on my own. Have to rely on my picture taking skills and my ability to hopefully not lame horse up haha! I have pretty much ditched the hoof boot idea, it seriously didn't work very well last go of it. Really don't think barefoot next spring/summer will work for this horse i just don't see it. He's never been barefoot for riding ever always shod except when i tried hoof boots. I guess i just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel right now. His feet look horrible and he's got me to trim him, who's clueless pretty much, only know what i've studied online so yeah scary thought..to trim a live horse's feet.

So i'm either going to have to learn how to shoe, or horse will have to toughen up and ride barefoot. I can see this journey is going to be highly frustrating. Trying to work on feet this winter when it's extremely cold, then dealing with feet that pretty much don't grow much at all after november. Were talking less then an 1/8th of an inch of growth during winter months. They hardly move during the winter once round bales go out.

Thank you, for the encouragement because i sure need it!
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post #83 of 171 Old 10-17-2018, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Haven't done any trimming or pictures. His feet are self trimming from riding him dailey,afraid he will wear down to short if trimmed. Just in general got cold feet on the idea of trimming ,so just haven't done anything with it.
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post #84 of 171 Old 10-17-2018, 04:34 PM
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Make sure to take pictures, regardless if he's chipping it away there are things that he can't self trim. If you post pictures of the bottom and side view I can draw on your pictures and show you what you should trim.
it's not scary I promise. Give your horse some calming paste a few hours before and do one hoof a day.
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post #85 of 171 Old 10-17-2018, 04:34 PM
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It's for the benefit of your horse's well being
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post #86 of 171 Old 10-17-2018, 07:17 PM
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First of all, good for you for taking such a big step. You really deserve some kind of reward!!

Going from shoes to barefoot can be a big adjustment to a horse. Like another mentioned, horses can’t feel much with shoes on. My own horse had the coffin bone rotate due to shoes and was sound for two vets and a high level trainer, but was a little stiffer than normal to turn on that side. When we took the shoes off she was very sore! It took her about a year and a bit to grow out a new, stronger hoof. She was pretty sensitive on her hooves for the majority of that time. However, she has always had a flatter sole and other issues to correct.

I really did not want to give up riding at the time, but am so glad I did to allow for her recovery. Boots occasionally do help, but like others mentioned, it may be a while before you are able to get your horse’s hooves in balance so that the boot fits properly.

If it is in the budget, I do recommend looking into your horse’s nutrition. A good balanced diet will help immensely in strengthening the hoof and increasing growth rate. There are quite a few things to look at, so I would make a new post specifically for that if you decide to look into his nutrition 🙂 I’ve noticed a big change in hooves after a few months on a balanced diet, whereas previously the owners were having a difficult time having their horse’s barefoot ( including me).

You might also find topical hardening solutions such as durasole, keratex and venice turpentine to be helpful.
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post #87 of 171 Old 10-17-2018, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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@BuckyGold thanks I'll try and get pictures of soles and side views tomorrow. Not sure when as I'm going riding first mid 60s in weeks. He needs to be tired he's so jacked up it's ridiculous.

@Jolly101 thanks been doing durasole has helped he is sound striding out normal. Not sure he'll ever be a barefoot candidate his feet wear down to short in riding season. Think his diet is good gets grass/alfalfa mix hay and oats/corn soybean meal. And empower boost fat supplement. Total grain fed is about 6 lbs a day. Its what he'll eat currently. Doesn't mean he will be eating it in 2 weeks from now though.
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post #88 of 171 Old 10-18-2018, 12:23 AM
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As you learn more about hooves, you might realize that what you thought of as short or not growing is actually different from what you thought.

For example, what many people see as normal hoof growth (walls separating and growing below the sole) doesn't happen as easily when hooves are deformed. Instead, a hoof that has contracted heels or jammed up hoof walls may retain sole down to the ground as it gets taller, so it doesn't appear as if it is growing to the untrained eye.

Just as your nails and hair always grow, hooves are always growing. The growth can slow down "a bit" in the winter months, but much of what is perceived as not growing is actually the hoof doing different things such as retaining sole when the ground is hard and dry, such as during freezing periods.
Unless you somehow have a perfectly balanced hoof on a horse that moves perfectly symmetrically, hooves need to be maintained and balanced throughout the seasons.

Often if a hoof is chipping, it is actually too long or poorly balanced so more pressure is happening in one area.

Here are a couple of pictures of hooves that you can see are too tall from a side view, but from the bottom it doesn't look like they are "growing" since you can't see a tall wall that looks like it needs trimming. It is chipping off the sides, but that's not "too much" wear or adequate self trimming either.

All of these hooves need trimming:



More examples with no obvious long hoof wall when viewed from underneath, but very long hooves.


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post #89 of 171 Old 10-18-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SueC View Post
However, rasping is hard work, and nipping off the obvious overgrowth first will save you a lot of sweat and sore arms. (You're going to have such toned arms from doing your own rasping
If I go suddenly back to lots of trimming after a long break & getting unfit, I end up with tennis/golfers(often both) elbow from nipping, but I reckon rasping is about technique more, because even when unfit I don't find it hard. Trick is, a good, sharp rasp & let the rasp do the work, don't try to force it or push on it. In fact, on hard feet I'll often turn it round & pull to cut, rather than push. I also use a double sided rasp(the only make I know of - Bassoli Doppia) that has a finer rasp instead of a file on one side & this takes less at a time but is easier in some situations. Not to mention giving you twice as much rasp for your money as other ones, as I rarely used the file side on standard ones.

Quote:
He also showed me how to sharpen my own rasp, which he will do after every 5 horses or so,
If you don't mind sharing Sue, how do you/he go about it?? He must have a better way than I've so far come across. IME many of us have tried to chemically sharpen them but found it makes too little difference to bother. I don't know of a farrier who does this.

***Don't let your rasp get rusty! They do at the drop of a hat, so if poss, best to avoid trimming muddy/wet feet, look after it & don't drop it on wet ground. And try to ensure any gravel, sand & the likes is picked out before trimming & don't rasp nails left in the foot - those things will blunt a rasp quickly. I have a split hide tool roll(was a farrier's apron once) & I oil it occasionally so it protects them well.

Hoof knife - I wouldn't go back to standard left or right handed ones after using a loop knife. And since discovering one that has a long, flatter blade(s) & a sharp, tight curve with a hoof pick on the off side, that is by far & away my go to & is pretty much a 'one size fits' knife, that I rarely find myself reaching for another - it's a tight enough curve to use the tip as a searcher too. Oh & knives, like nips, work more easily if they have a thinner blade. Oh & sharpen them often, with a smooth stone, but avoid filing them to sharpen unless necessary, as this will wear them out quicker & often make the blade uneven.

Quote:
I think the whole question of boots can't be revisited until your horse has reasonable feet, and that's going to take time. Successful use of hoof boots depends so much on having healthy hoof angles
To some extent this may sometimes be true & may be why OP's boots were wrecked in the past, but there are so many different types out there now & some designed for 'unhealthy' feet, so as a rule, boots can indeed work from scratch - which is, after all, when they're most needed - provided you do your research into which types are best for certain hoof confo's or certain terrain.

Quote:
it will be a bit intimidating at first, and perhaps even incredibly frustrating at the start, but we've all been there.
Yep, we have all been that gimpy beginner. Just accept you'll feel like that(esp if you're not naturally ambidextrous - it will come!), but you will get over it!

Quote:
I'm hereby going to give you a little booklet of ten free ranting vouchers, redeemable anytime,
You're a classic Sue!!
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #90 of 171 Old 10-18-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rambo99 View Post
I have pretty much ditched the hoof boot idea, it seriously didn't work very well last go of it. Really don't think barefoot next spring/summer will work for this horse
I hear you and hoof boots aren't appropriate for all - if the horse brushes, wings or twists their feet for eg, that can make them problematic. Tho as said, I don't at all agree necessarily that they're no good for unhealthy conformed feet as a rule though. Perhaps if you can give details on exactly what went wrong in the past, because it didn't sound like normal probs.

As for the horse not being up to barefoot by next year, yes, that is a fairly large possibility. If he's got poor feet now, it will take quite some time to rehab them(can't say time frame as depends on so much), before you can even really begin to 'condition' them. And then, realistically, depending on what you're wanting & his management, what you can provide, it's possible he will never be up to everything you want of him barefoot. Do not feel you are failing if it isn't going to work. Some horses do indeed always need artificial protection/support, at least part of the time.

As said previously, I strongly feel you should avoid rim shoes completely if the horse's feet are unhealthy, at least wait until they have greatly improved. And they should be used judiciously & not long term without respite anyway. BUT if hoof boots seriously won't cut it for him, then there are always Easyshoes or Eponas or such, which are a great alternative that alleviate most, if not all of the 'side effects' of shoeing.

Quote:
feet that pretty much don't grow much at all after november. Were talking less then an 1/8th of an inch of growth during winter months. They hardly move during the winter once round bales go out.
Yep, as you point out, seems you get that lack of exercise is one factor in how fast hooves grow & wear. As is nutrition, environment & pre existing damage. As his feet aren't great now, particularly as he was long term rimshod, this will be a big part of it. They will grow faster when healthy. When horses are shod & peripherally loaded, there tends to be a lot of constant pressure on 2 of the most major arteries of the hoof - the circumflex(solar) & the coronary(top of hoof capsule) arteries. This can cause reduced circulation, especially when on hard ground(& is also I believe what causes reduced feeling). Low frequency vibration, from the shoe hitting hard surfaces also can interfere with circulation, as well as other effects. And the hoof just not functioning as it should due to the shoes also inhibits circulation. All of this inhibits growth.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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