Subclinical laminitis now what? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 92 Old 05-21-2019, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
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Can't post pictures from phone on here it won't let me. My laptop isn't working. Xrays really don't show much. He got feet done today and he is sound barefoot.

Trimmer saw no evidence of laminitis. Soles are thin at toe but thats from toes being long, not laminitis or sub clinical laminitis. This trimmer has dealt with many cases of laminitis said this horse doesn't have it.

He watched him move before trimming then after was sore before sound after. Said no reason he can't be ridden now. No longer landing toe first. He'll be back in two weeks to put shoes back on horse..didn't have the right size on truck. Plus he didn't have time he squeezed my horse's into his schedule today.

He's not sure where vet came up with subclinical laminitis but he did.
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post #12 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo99 View Post
Trimmer saw no evidence of laminitis. Soles are thin at toe but thats from toes being long, not laminitis or sub clinical laminitis.
Sounds like trimmer may have a... different interpretation of 'laminitis' then. Perhaps he sees it only as going along with bounding pulse or whatever. Toes stretched/soles particularly thin ARE signs of laminitis/founder. Toes being left long IS a cause of founder. Regardless what you want to lable it, it is still a significant problem to be dealt with. What signs did the vet tell you he saw? Are they not there any more??
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #13 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
Sounds like trimmer may have a... different interpretation of 'laminitis' then. Perhaps he sees it only as going along with bounding pulse or whatever. Toes stretched/soles particularly thin ARE signs of laminitis/founder. Toes being left long IS a cause of founder. Regardless what you want to lable it, it is still a significant problem to be dealt with. What signs did the vet tell you he saw? Are they not there any more??
He saw long stretched toes, short striding lame. Pulse elevated ,soles thin, said there was some degree of rotation of coffin bones. There was a little bit of heat in fronts. The long toes underrun heels aren't there any more.


Trimmer said long toes underrun heels will cause a short stride toe first landing will make horse sore/lame. Horse going completely sound after trim, barefoot on hard surface. ...isn't laminitis.

I don't know enough about laminitis or it's effects. All I know is horse still stands like he did, with fronts underneath himself. Trimmers explanation for the stance is it's become habit.

Don't know who's right or wrong ,I'm going on what I was told by both vet and trimmer. Only writing what I was told by both, it's not my explanation of horse's hoof issues.
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Last edited by rambo99; 05-23-2019 at 07:56 AM.
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post #14 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 08:38 AM
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Here is a good link for you to check out

https://aaep.org/horsehealth/laminit...tion-treatment

What you're saying is ALL signs. Short striding lame, long toes, pulse elevated, thin soles, rotation in coffin bone, heat in the hooves, standing under himself more...wasn't he also having issues with colic and diarrhea? I don't think you should write off this diagnosis so quickly.
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post #15 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 09:07 AM
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If the vet said there is rotation of the coffin bone, that is not laminitis, that is founder. Founder is the leading cause of euthanization of horses.


If the vet took x-rays and said it's founder, then it's founder. Very serious stuff and not to be toyed with.


If the trimmer removed a lot of toe, it may well be that much of the tearing and pain of the laminae was reduced, but if the coffin bone is rotated, even with proper care, it will take most of a year or more before the coffin bone is fully attached to the hoof wall and even then the strength of the connection will be somewhat compromised for the rest of the hores's life.


If your horse has in fact foundered, it is imperative that you delve into a crash course of learning about this condition and it's treatment/management.


No more just going on what people tell you but going on what you have learned and know.


Referring to shoes, my local vet said he pulled the shoes off his horse and he presented lame. Put shoes back on and he was sound. That was the end of the topic of barefoot to him. He doesn't know squat about a horses hoof even though he has a large and substantial small animal income business.


The one and only trimmer that ever made a visit to my horse used some sort of unorthodox method for estimating the location of the tip of the coffin bone. He said using the widest part of the hoof is inaccurate because of flair. He also said he used to follow ELPO but had drifted away. ELPO specifically says the widest part of the hoof is determined by the width of the sole, not the hoof capsule because flair can throw it off.


If this guy had studied ELPO he didn't study very well. He was recommended to me by a vet that gives lectures. If I followed this guy's recommendations Hondo would not make it.


You just must be very careful about who you listen to and follow. There is so much bad information and bad practitioners on horse care that it is incredible. There is simply no way to tell one from another other than extended self education.
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I think it important to always be mindful that the horse actually owes us nothing at all and it is we who owe the horse. "It's a goal"
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post #16 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Not writing it off as not being laminitis. Trimmer felt his feet and said there was no heat. This is same vet who couldn't diagnose the Lyme disease.

Whatever it is can't be feed related he get NO kind of grain or pellets. ..he won't eat any of it. He had the poops earlier this year not an issue now. Colic was ulcer related. Ulcers aren't an issue anymore.

Horse isn't fat doesn't have a cresty neck so doesn't fit into that category for laminitis prone. Metabolic issues aren't a problem either. I felt his feet and no heat no elevated pulse either. So don't know what to think.

I read part of the link will read it all later. Thank you for posting it.

Hard to know who to believe, one says one thing other says different.
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post #17 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 09:37 AM
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But donít the Xrays show whether thereís rotation or not?
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post #18 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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@Hondo thank you for the detailed post. Vets calling it laminitis not founder. Rotation is 1 degree left front 2 degrees right front.

I'm going on what I've been told I've done some studying on hooves but not a ton.
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post #19 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by egrogan View Post
But donít the Xrays show whether thereís rotation or not?
yep they do I didn't want to tell it, when I first posted about xrays.
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post #20 of 92 Old 05-23-2019, 10:07 AM
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Got it, and I completely understand it is difficult to deal with that. I wasnít trying to pick on you (hope it didnít come across that way)-was just thinking that the Xrays are fairly objective so you donít have to decide whether your vet or farrier is giving better advice.
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