Trim Critique - Horse is Lame - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 27 Old 07-15-2017, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by walkinthewalk View Post
I see a lot of heel taken of and it could be the angle but a couple hooves look like they weren't taken off level; not that being I level would make the horse lame.
Have you seen 'before' pics of this horse walkin? I wonder what you're seeing that make you think 'too much' heel was taken?? I agree fully, that IF heels were massive & heaps lopped off in one fell swoop, that's a recipe for disaster. It's not just tendons & ligaments that will be strained because they've adapted, but the actual structure of bone changes to align with the forces on it, so will be weaker with significant angle change, until it adapts back.

But in these pics, the biggest thing I see actually are *overgrown* heels & bars. It appears they're all 'run forward' to some degree. But no matter how much they may 'need' to lose, it should be done gradually, not in one fell swoop.

& Sarahfromsc, yes, that kind of big weather change - the record wet bit at least - can absolutely make horses more 'sensitive'. Just like our own skin after a long bath, wet footing softens the 'skin' of their feet. IMHO there is never a reason to just accept 'tender after a trim', but there are sometimes reasons for it that aren't due to 'farrier error'. 'Low Grade Laminitis' is one of those possible reasons.

OP, as well as the possible massive change to heel angle, IF they were a lot higher than that, I agree that it's possible a little too much might have been taken from the toe walls. I don't think that would have caused soreness though. What I suspect is that sole was pared. Can't tell whether that's happened, but soles don't look deep/thick anyway, and a farrier who routinely carves frogs like that usually routinely carves into soles too. Thinning the 'skin' under the foot will of course make a horse more tender, until the callouses can grow back.
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post #22 of 27 Old 07-15-2017, 08:45 AM
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@loosie , no, I have not seen before pics. I know what happens when one assumes

But I assumed, after looking at the soles and frogs, that the heels were probably cut off in one large strike. It just looks to me, the farrier may have tried to "catch up" the trimming and took too much of everything.

I have heard the phrase "there! That otta last ya!" come out of a farrier's mouth a few times in my life ----- not where my horses were concerned.
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post #23 of 27 Old 07-15-2017, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
OP, as well as the possible massive change to heel angle, IF they were a lot higher than that, I agree that it's possible a little too much might have been taken from the toe walls. I don't think that would have caused soreness though. What I suspect is that sole was pared. Can't tell whether that's happened, but soles don't look deep/thick anyway, and a farrier who routinely carves frogs like that usually routinely carves into soles too. Thinning the 'skin' under the foot will of course make a horse more tender, until the callouses can grow back.
Is there such thing as not touching the soles when trimming? I don't think my old farrier hardly ever touched them, except for the time of year when the hooves "shed" the frogs and soles, and she would just clean things up a bit. She very well may have, but I haven't been around to see my horse be trimmed regularly for the past 2 years, so it was totally in her hands.

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post #24 of 27 Old 07-15-2017, 08:56 PM
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^Yes. The 'normal' thing that farriers tend to learn is to carve out the sole so it's nice & neat & concave - there is a small point to that if the horse is shod, because constant pressure on soles from shoes is damaging. To carve the frogs into nice, neat triangular affairs. But I'm of the belief, as it sounds was your old farrier & many these days - because, well evidence speaks... that God or Dog or whatever you believe in, didn't put anything on the ground surface of a horse's foot without good reason, and like us, they need good, thick, calloused 'skin' to walk on rough footing. So as a rule(in this game there are many exceptions to virtually every rule tho), you don't pare any sole that isn't ready to come off & won't conceivably do better staying there, and you don't pare any frog unless it's diseased, or flappy, overhanging bits that can harbour disease.
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post #25 of 27 Old 07-17-2017, 04:21 AM
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What loosie says.

All the ELPO materials I studied, never touch the sole too much. O'Grady even emphasised that in his 2 day seminar we had (in second day he trimmed 3 horses - one who went lame after a barefoot trim, 1 reshoeing - showed how to shoe better with bigger shoes, and 1 chronic laminitis case - he barely touched the sole on any!)

I have never found the need to trim the sole, the frog sometimes has dropped too far out and gets trimmed a little, because otherwise it would take too much pressure, but normally as loosie said, just trimming the pockets and potential disease holders!
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post #26 of 27 Old 07-17-2017, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
^Yes. The 'normal' thing that farriers tend to learn is to carve out the sole so it's nice & neat & concave - there is a small point to that if the horse is shod, because constant pressure on soles from shoes is damaging. To carve the frogs into nice, neat triangular affairs. But I'm of the belief, as it sounds was your old farrier & many these days - because, well evidence speaks... that God or Dog or whatever you believe in, didn't put anything on the ground surface of a horse's foot without good reason, and like us, they need good, thick, calloused 'skin' to walk on rough footing. So as a rule(in this game there are many exceptions to virtually every rule tho), you don't pare any sole that isn't ready to come off & won't conceivably do better staying there, and you don't pare any frog unless it's diseased, or flappy, overhanging bits that can harbour disease.
Well, I'm going to assume this is what caused my guys lameness! I went out and checked on him yesterday, and he is still favoring his right front leg quite a bit, but he does seem to be getting better and his hooves grow out. Show training is on pause for the time being though, as I rode briefly yesterday, and at a point he was head bobbing and favoring his fronts a bit too much for my liking Oh well, there is no such thing as too much groundwork!

I think my plan is to stay off of him until his sole is grown back, and he is no longer favoring his fronts at all. Ordering the tools today or tomorrow, and will continue to absorb information until his next trimming time, which will be in about 3 or 4 weeks!
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Last edited by ClearDonkey; 07-17-2017 at 10:05 AM.
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post #27 of 27 Old 07-17-2017, 08:53 PM
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You might try padding him - he might be fine worked with some artificial protection. You can experiment for virtually nothing, with some styrofoam or such duct taped to his feet.
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