Should I breed? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 04-08-2020, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
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Should I breed?

I have a 14.1 Spotted saddle horse/pony I would like to breed to my Gypsy Cross male, but I am concerned that he may be too large for her. Right now he's almost 2, but already 14 hands. We expect him to mature to be 15.1-16.1 hands (not sure though). He is 1/2 Gypsy Vanner, 1/4 friesian, and 1/4 paint. He's pretty stocky. The mare is petite but round if that makes sense with long legs. She's very fat and round but has a slender body. Just like to get your opinions. We're thinking about breeding them in a few weeks.

it would be both horse's first breeding/foal. I know that can make a difference. I have read that mare's first foals will often be born smaller. I just want to get your thoughts/opinions. I want to pasture breed them.

Last edited by VanessaWolf; 04-08-2020 at 11:31 PM.
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post #2 of 26 Old 04-08-2020, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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Also

I forgot to mention, it would be both horse's first breeding/foal. I know that can make a difference. I have read that mare's first foals will often be born smaller. I just want to get your thoughts/opinions. I want to pasture breed them.
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post #3 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 01:10 AM
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I am not experienced in breeding, but thought I'd leave these questions as food for thought for you.

What are your intentions in breeding? To produce a solid horse out of balanced dam and sire? Or just to have the novelty of producing your own foal?

What will you do with the foal? Keep? Sell? Train yourself? Hire a trainer?

Can you afford the veterinary care and other additional expenses of a pregnant mare and future foal? Do you have enough horse experience to handle and manage (nutrition, safe pasture, etc) a pregnant mare and future foal?

Are you prepared for the always-present risk of losing your mare to a pregnancy or foaling complication?

And finally... Can you post photos of both horses? Just out of curiosity, and also so others can judge the compatibility of both horses
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post #4 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 02:38 AM
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Welcome,

I am experienced with breeding, so I will be absolutely straightforward with my reply.

To answer your question, it would b a gamble and a foal might be to stocky for the mare to produce without tearing her. I would NOT breed a slender mare to this sort of stud first time.

Having answered your query here are some questions you should be asking yourself.

Why are you thinking of breeding these two?

How much experience you have with handling a stallion?

Why, with the breeding he has , are you even considering keeping him as a stud?

As he is not yet two I would not be thinking of him covering a mare. Before he is used he should be proven to be good at something. As should the mare.
This doesn't have to be in a competitive field necessarily but there should be a good reason for breeding any foal.

What are the faults in the conformation in both horses? Will they compliment each other?

From the little you have written it seems to me that this is the epitome of classic backyard breeding.
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post #5 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 06:09 AM
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I would not do a breeding between these 2 animals with such a size difference of the mare being significantly "smaller"....
More common is to breed of like size bodies or female larger than the male or the female a larger boned body.
But slender, a petite build against a "1/2 Gypsy Vanner, 1/4 friesian, and 1/4 paint, stocky build." to me is asking for trouble.
I would not be opening the possibility of losing my mare and or foal during birth.
Honestly, I would keep my mare as she is and go find exactly what you want already born...
No guarantees of what any cross shall bring till born and even then no nothing till it starts to mature and nature begins showing some serious traits desired.
...
jmo...
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post #6 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 06:31 AM
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Along with Fox's & April's very pertinent questions & comments, I would not consider breeding ANY horse in this current economic climate - not that your colt is really old enough to breed yet(he *could* potentially, but probably shouldn't, for at least another year or 2), assuming he is even great breeding material. And if your mare is 'very fat', while this is as bad healthwise for horses as it is to be an obese human, and pregnancy will put much greater strain on her already compromised system, so I'd absolutely want to get her in good & not overweight shape before you start.
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post #7 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 06:40 AM
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Further more, breeding young colts (3yos and under) has been linked to undesirable behaviours in the future such as self-mutilation. Many repro vets refuse to collect or breed from young colts for this reason. That is another point to consider, in addition to all of the above comments.
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post #8 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your opinions.

https://rubyfireec.com/_files/200000...IMG_6709-8.png
https://rubyfireec.com/_files/200000...0/IMG_0227.JPG

The first picture is of the mare and the second is of the stallion (A few months ago so he has aged some now)
I can wait another year until he is a 3 year old. (or 2 so he's 4)

I do not want to endanger the mare in any way. I was afraid she might be too small, which is why I wanted to ask your opinions. I just want the novelty of producing my own foal. She is a fantastic trail horse and jumper which is why I'd like to breed her. The stallion has a beautiful coat and a great personality. I've looked at what coats these 2 may produce, and they have the potential to produce some unique babies, but as I said above I do not want to endanger her in any way.
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post #9 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanessaWolf View Post
I have a 14.1 Spotted saddle horse/pony I would like to breed to my Gypsy Cross male, but I am concerned that he may be too large for her. Right now he's almost 2, but already 14 hands. We expect him to mature to be 15.1-16.1 hands (not sure though). He is 1/2 Gypsy Vanner, 1/4 friesian, and 1/4 paint. He's pretty stocky. The mare is petite but round if that makes sense with long legs. She's very fat and round but has a slender body. Just like to get your opinions. We're thinking about breeding them in a few weeks.

it would be both horse's first breeding/foal. I know that can make a difference. I have read that mare's first foals will often be born smaller. I just want to get your thoughts/opinions. I want to pasture breed them.
As I understand this, you wish to breed your pony mare ((Whose breed doesn't seem to be overly common?)), to a mongrel of a stallion? Gypsy Vanners and Friesians have been "fad" breeds for the last decade, the Paint isn't even remotely similar in body type so I'm baffled as to why someone would breed one to either of those breeds in the first place.

I'm sure that your stallion is cute though, quite hairy too I'm sure.

But why create yet another grade horse? A second generation grade horse no less! Yes, I am aware of the old saying "You can't ride papers". But in this day and age, a horse having a pedigree increases marketability. You can usually resell a papered horse for more money and have an easier time doing so than if you were trying to sell an unpapered horse.

Look, the horse market had the bottom fall out of it back in 2007. Things are better now then they were then, but the market has never quite managed to recover. Breeding pedigree horses is a money losing business, breeding grade horses is only moreso.

And don't tell me "Oh I never intend to sell this foal, it'll stay with forever and forever more!".

You can't guarantee that. No one can. Life happens. Death can occur suddenly, unexpectedly and at any time. Half of all marriages end in divorce. Natural disasters can and do destroy whole lives in a moment. I could go on and on, but I hope that I've made my point. You can't predict the future and personal situations change everyday. Perhaps right now you could look after this potential foal for the foreseeable future, but what about five years from now? Ten? Twenty? Horses live a long time and are only living longer!

And very few people manage to look after their horse from birth to death.

So my advice to you is this:-

1.) Geld the stallion, he doesn't need to be reproducing.

2.) Buy a foal that's already on the ground. You can pick up many a colorful youngster cheaply at the nearest livestock auction or via your local Craigslist page. Look into nearby horse rescues if that's your thing.

3.) If you insist on breeding the mare, at the very least breed her to a quality stallion of her own breed. Don't skimp on pre-breeding and pregnancy care. Be prepared to make hard decisions if the birth has complications or if the foal has an unexpected health problem/birth defect. Train the resulting foal up once it's mature. Make sure that it has good manners on the ground, discourage vices and that it knows how to walk, trot and canter under saddle at the very least. A well trained horse is a marketable horse!
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post #10 of 26 Old 04-09-2020, 09:35 AM
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I am with the others here. From the pictures neither horse is remarkable in either conformation - the resulting foal could get the worst of all of those odd breeds the parents are made up of. For most people that breed their mare they are looking to create a "better" version of that animal and choose the stallion based on the mares weaker points. You have 2 "ok" animals here but neither is a standout. I cannot imagine that leaving the colt a stud would result in people wanting to breed to him, there are enough quality registered stallions out there with low stud fees that breeding to a so-so grade stallion would have no perks.

I know criticism like this is hard. No one wants their dreams shattered, please understand that many of us have had horses for years, some are breeders and some are in the equine medical field. Many of us have been to the auctions and seen the loose pen horses knowing they are going to a horrible fate. Forever is a long time to own a horse and unfortunately most horses are not owned "forever" by one person. That is just the reality. The best thing we can do for our animals is stop over breeding, train them right and create a horse that is marketable even in financially hard times.
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