Lipizzaners - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 08:08 PM
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Also, being a carriage breed originally, a lot of them have “sway” backs and it isn’t a conformation flaw for them. To me it just looks painful even though I know they are ok being like that.
It's of complete indifference what breed people do or don't like and I'd never blast anyone for liking or not liking one.

I do, however, take issue with breed myths. While it is true that about 100 years ago there had been a separate breeding program started using larger specimens of the breed and geared for producing heavier animals better suited for driving than riding, that program ended when it became a casualty of the world war. The only breeding program that survived were the riding variety.

The same myth holds true with the Friesians.

These breeds are all members of the old Baroque breeds (I'm not going to list them all... just google it LOL). All of which were riding horses (even riding breeds can be used to pull). In fact, at one time there were several "riding schools" in different European countries (of which the Spanish Riding School in Vienna is the only one remaining) which used other Baroque breeds. They tend to be popular for the schools, because of their strength (they were originally war horses in a time when forms of armor were still worn) and for their ability to "prance".

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post #12 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by its lbs not miles View Post
It's of complete indifference what breed people do or don't like and I'd never blast anyone for liking or not liking one.

I do, however, take issue with breed myths. While it is true that about 100 years ago there had been a separate breeding program started using larger specimens of the breed and geared for producing heavier animals better suited for driving than riding, that program ended when it became a casualty of the world war. The only breeding program that survived were the riding variety.

The same myth holds true with the Friesians.

These breeds are all members of the old Baroque breeds (I'm not going to list them all... just google it LOL). All of which were riding horses (even riding breeds can be used to pull). In fact, at one time there were several "riding schools" in different European countries (of which the Spanish Riding School in Vienna is the only one remaining) which used other Baroque breeds. They tend to be popular for the schools, because of their strength (they were originally war horses in a time when forms of armor were still worn) and for their ability to "prance".
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by its lbs not miles View Post
It's of complete indifference what breed people do or don't like and I'd never blast anyone for liking or not liking one.

I do, however, take issue with breed myths. While it is true that about 100 years ago there had been a separate breeding program started using larger specimens of the breed and geared for producing heavier animals better suited for driving than riding, that program ended when it became a casualty of the world war. The only breeding program that survived were the riding variety.

The same myth holds true with the Friesians.

These breeds are all members of the old Baroque breeds (I'm not going to list them all... just google it LOL). All of which were riding horses (even riding breeds can be used to pull). In fact, at one time there were several "riding schools" in different European countries (of which the Spanish Riding School in Vienna is the only one remaining) which used other Baroque breeds. They tend to be popular for the schools, because of their strength (they were originally war horses in a time when forms of armor were still worn) and for their ability to "prance".
I am not sure about the history of the breeding but I have personally witnessed people breeding Lipizzaners for driving quite a few times. More often than riding horses.

As far as I’m aware, Lipizzaners were never meant as heavy driving horses. That branch was being developed in Kladrub and those horses still exist (Kladruby horses). Lipizzaners were always meant for light carriage driving.

A lot of people around here use them exclusively as fancy carriage horses. So much so that we have an old folk saying about work horses and “parade” horses (the later being understood as Lipizzaners). The fancy driving around here encourages high knee action which isn’t exactly comfortable for riding. I am not sure if there is causation but I have yet to ride a horse with high knee action which is comfortable.

I am not saying that Lipizzaners are exclusively driving horses but locally they are used much more for driving than riding.
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 11:37 PM
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The type of driving they are used for locally.


(On a side note, managing photos on this platform is a special kind of torture)
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-18-2018, 11:43 PM
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Kladruby horses, the “heavy” driving horses. They look very different, at least to me.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 03:32 AM
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I live only a few hours from a national lipizzaner stud farm, so they are fairly common around here. They are great looking animals (I have seen no swaybacks yet) and their conformation is usually pretty good.

The barn I take lessons in always has a pair of them at least. They buy young geldings (2-7 years) for later resale and start teaching them to drive. After a year or so when they drive well, they start going under saddle. I dont ride them myself but sometimes I watch them being ridden. From what I have seen they are high energy horses but pretty steady once they get out of their fidgety baby phase. They would be a way too much horse for me, but I am a beginner so no surprise there.
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BzooZu View Post
I live only a few hours from a national lipizzaner stud farm, so they are fairly common around here. They are great looking animals (I have seen no swaybacks yet) and their conformation is usually pretty good.

The barn I take lessons in always has a pair of them at least. They buy young geldings (2-7 years) for later resale and start teaching them to drive. After a year or so when they drive well, they start going under saddle. I dont ride them myself but sometimes I watch them being ridden. From what I have seen they are high energy horses but pretty steady once they get out of their fidgety baby phase. They would be a way too much horse for me, but I am a beginner so no surprise there.
Quite, the well bred ones don’t have sway backs. The ones coming from a national stud farm wouldn’t. Unfortunately, quite a few of them aren’t well bred and I’m not sure why the sway back happens so often with them. I thought it’s because of driving but I am not sure.
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post #18 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 05:51 AM
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Quite, the well bred ones don’t have sway backs. The ones coming from a national stud farm wouldn’t. Unfortunately, quite a few of them aren’t well bred and I’m not sure why the sway back happens so often with them. I thought it’s because of driving but I am not sure.
I have checked out the stud farms website just now and there ARE some that you could call swayback at least slightly (or maybe they are just standing wrong). But they are riding stock, not breeding stock from what I can see.

This is one of the stallions they use for breeding and while he has some features I am not fond of, he seems to be a pretty nice example of his breed in our country. (To me at least)


if the image is not working, here is a link: Neapolitano_XIV_BOJANA
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post #19 of 25 Old 07-19-2018, 06:05 AM
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I am privilege to have seen the Spanish Riding School perform in London on three occasions. The horses aren't very tall but are strong with compact backs and good bone.

They do not have the 'big' movement that the modern dressage horse does.

As for temperament I cannot say but, doing the short rein work, (trainer walking with only one rein attached to the horse to perform unmounted airs above the ground) one horse was getting very agitated and was jigging and uptight.
The Head could see what was going on. The horse was meant to be doing a Capriole but all it did was charge forward.
Very quietly the Head swapped horses, he got him softer and more settled, when asked to do a Capriole the horse did a slight jump forward in the centre of the arena. The Head pulled him up and took a treat from the top of his jacket at the back, gave it amd a pat amd went on. After about four tries which were nothing spectacular, the horse leapt into the air above Head height and his back legs parallel to the ground. Again he was stopped and praised and walked to the exit and was taken outside.

I did do the stud work and riding of an Arab Lipizzaner stallion cross, he was good temperament but nothing special to ride.
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-20-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Horsef View Post
I am not sure about the history of the breeding but I have personally witnessed people breeding Lipizzaners for driving quite a few times. More often than riding horses.

As far as I’m aware, Lipizzaners were never meant as heavy driving horses. That branch was being developed in Kladrub and those horses still exist (Kladruby horses). Lipizzaners were always meant for light carriage driving.

A lot of people around here use them exclusively as fancy carriage horses. So much so that we have an old folk saying about work horses and “parade” horses (the later being understood as Lipizzaners). The fancy driving around here encourages high knee action which isn’t exactly comfortable for riding. I am not sure if there is causation but I have yet to ride a horse with high knee action which is comfortable.

I am not saying that Lipizzaners are exclusively driving horses but locally they are used much more for driving than riding.
You are clearly correct about not knowing the history of the breeding. They were not "always meant for light carriage driving". The classical Baroque breeds (which they are part of) where created for riding. People love to say the same "meant for carriages" of other Baroque breeds like the Friesian, but if you study their history you'll find that they were riding horses first. Pulling carriages came later. Any horse breed can be used for driving. Because someone uses it for that (or that is becomes popular for that) does not mean that it was created for that. Just as any horse can be ridden, but that doesn't mean that it was what the breed was created for. The history of the breed tells you that, These breeds were created for the knights of their age to ride into combat and more often than not you found nobility and royalty mounted on them because of their "style" and "appearance".
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