Champagne - The Horse Forum
 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 03-19-2019, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6
• Horses: 0
Champagne

We have a mare TWH that is listed classic champagne on her papers. I am wondering if this is correct? She looks more like an amber champagne to me. We are considering breeding her to a palomino stallion and I am curious as to what colors are possible. The mare's mom was black, sire was palomino. The palomino stallion we would like to breed her with had a chestnut sire and palomino mother. Thanks! Pictures are included of our mare.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190228_123518_1553004216960.jpg (194.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 20190228_123403_1553004237622.jpg (527.9 KB, 7 views)
Carlajohnson is offline  
post #2 of 15 Old 03-19-2019, 10:21 AM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 646
• Horses: 2
With a black sire and a palomino mother you couldn't get a champagne gene. One of the parents would need to have champagne to pass it down. Most likely the palomino mare was the one carrying champagne.

With black and palomino base coats there's a possibility of classic or amber champagne, as well as the additional creme dilute. Since the mane is so dark I'm wondering if this horse is a carrier for a creme gene already as well, making her a classic creme champagne. That would be a black horse with a champagne and creme gene.

When you start adding in the creme dilutes on top of the champagne they get lighter, and you could have a double creme champagne which would look like a cremello.

If you breed her to the palomino stallion you have the possibility of getting the double creme champagne dilutes, or just a single creme dilute, but there would also be a possibility of getting no creme dilute as well.

Breeding the two horses you are looking at has the possibility of producing many different combinations, especially if she is already a creme carrier.
Carlajohnson likes this.
Filou is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 03-19-2019, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6
• Horses: 0
These are her papers if that helps. When our granddad got her mother (black) she was pregnant. The papers say the sire was a palomino, so you're saying he was actually champagne? Horse genetics are so interesting!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190227_151953_1553006357455.jpg (131.2 KB, 14 views)
Carlajohnson is offline  
post #4 of 15 Old 03-19-2019, 12:11 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NE Pa
Posts: 6,350
• Horses: 6
Unfortunately, registries often are incomplete or even outright wrong in terms of what color they register horses as. Gold champagne is often incorrectly registered as palomino, which seems likely in this case as your mare is clearly champagne and had to come from her sire if her dam was black. If you could see a copy of your mare's sire's papers, it may be noted he was both palomino and champagne, but those kinds of notes are often lost in progeny paperwork. A shame registries can't modernize to reflect changes in knowledge!


Testing her is the only way to know for sure if her base is bay or black, as there is a lot of phenotypic overlap, forget adding the champagne on top of it. Testing would help you narrow down the options for foal colors, though having the agouti of the stallion would also be helpful for the best prediction.
Yogiwick and Filou like this.


There is no joy equal to that found on the back of a horse.
phantomhorse13 is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 03-27-2019, 12:10 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New England
Posts: 11,715
• Horses: 3
I think she look classic and not amber, but you can always test. Regardless without knowing the agouti status of the stallion (what makes black bay, and classic amber and hides on chestnut) we have to assume the possibility of it being there.

So you have black bay or chestnut as options, with or without champagne (50% chance), with or without cream (50% chance). It's possible to have both champagne and cream too, which will just lighten the horse even more. Lots of colors.

If you want to determine more accurately you'll want to figure out agouti (the test) if she's classic and doesn't have it and the stallion doesn't have it then the foal will only be black or chestnut based and the bay, and subsequent colors (buckskin for example- bay + cream) will be eliminated. You can also search the web, there's a great color calculator out there that will give you exact percentages based off genetics.
Yogiwick is online now  
post #6 of 15 Old 03-27-2019, 03:58 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,627
• Horses: 4
I did some googling and found the ICHR website: http://www.ichregistry.com/colors.htm

She looks much more like the classic champagne example that they use. A bit lighter but shade variation is normal.
Yogiwick likes this.

REGAL PRINCESS
blue eyed pony is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 03-27-2019, 04:08 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,627
• Horses: 4
I did some googling and found the ICHR website: http://www.ichregistry.com/colors.htm

She looks much more like the classic champagne example that they use. A bit lighter but shade variation is normal.

REGAL PRINCESS
blue eyed pony is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 05-03-2019, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6
• Horses: 0
So I just got her color testing back. Any thoughts? If I'm understanding correctly, she doesn't carry the cream gene and is homozygous recessive for agouti. So we should not get a double cream dilute foal. (Has a 50% chance of inheriting dad's cream and 50% chance of getting mom's champagne) What would the possibilities be now that this is narrowed down?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190503_112549_1556897220506.jpg (168.5 KB, 13 views)
Carlajohnson is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 05-03-2019, 12:23 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 646
• Horses: 2
So she is a classic champagne.

Base coat aside-
25% chance of creme and champ
25% chance of no creme and champ
25% chance of creme no champ
25% chance of no creme no champ

Do you have any info of the agouti for the stallion you bred her to?
If he is aa or Aa you could get chestnut base, bay base, or black.
If he is AA you would be limited to only chestnut or bay base.
Knowing if shes ChCh or chch would also change the options.

I think, here are the possibilities by name- chestnut, bay, black, palomino, buckskin, smoky black, gold champagne, amber champagne, classic champagne, gold creme, amber creme, classic creme.
Filou is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 05-03-2019, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6
• Horses: 0
Thanks for the info! I do not know the agouti status of the stallion, I will have to ask his owner if he knows. Our horse only inherited the champagne gene from one parent, because her mother was black. It's my understanding that they always show the champagne gene if they carry so she must not have had it. It came from her sire which was listed as palomino, but most likely gold champagne we are guessing.
Carlajohnson is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Champagne Gene...in particular Amber Champagne Rawlo Horse Colors and Genetics 8 10-05-2012 03:53 PM
Palomino? Buckskin? Champagne? what? ~picture heavy~ lilkitty90 Horse Breeds 52 06-07-2010 04:37 PM
Should I test him for champagne? Or not? CloudsMystique Horse Breeding 10 05-05-2010 03:17 PM
My new rescue, Champagne! AlternativeEquineTraining Horse Health 6 12-26-2009 12:08 PM
Question on Champagne gene. mountainhorse44 Horse Breeding 2 09-06-2009 11:08 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome