Roan to Grey? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Roan to Grey?

I have two grey horses right now in my string that are both almost pure white in summer. Both are registered AQHA, both were born roan, or at least that is what their papers say. One was a blue roan and the other a red roan. Now they are both white or mud colored depending on how wet and muddy their pasture is. I really don't want another grey/white horse they seem to be prone to having melanomas as they get older and I don't love the color although it is helpful during elk season as nobody mistakes a white horse for an elk on accident. Anyway I am looking at various horses in the upcoming Salmon sale and this one looks like one I want to take a closer look at, when I am at the sale but how do I tell if he is going to grey out or not? or is that even possible? He is an 11 year old grade QH:

Horse color and genetics and knowing what gives what is something I am really not good at so any thoughts or pointers on how to actually tell if a horse will grey out or not would be appreciated.

Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, add what is essentially your own. - Bruce Lee
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post #2 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 12:58 PM
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An eleven-year-old should already be grey if it has the grey gene. Some horses take longer to grey than others, but I've never heard of any not turning grey by age 7.
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post #3 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 01:00 PM
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Even with not knowing what color his parents are, at 11, I would say the chances of greying out are almost none if at all. Roans don't grey out unless they have the grey gene but that would be any color with the grey gene. Nice horse, I like him.

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post #4 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 02:05 PM
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His head is dark so he's a roan. If he were gray, his head would be white.

It's interesting that the people that bred your other horses couldn't tell grey from roan. I understand the moment they are born it can be hard to tell, but golly, if they take the trouble to register a horse, they could at least get their color right. It takes at least one grey parent to make a grey, and I believe roan is the same way. So unless they are breeding grey + roan, I don't see how breeders could mess that up. It's one part how they look and one part what is genetically possible. And one part color testing if they are still not sure.

But anyway, the one you posted video of is roan.

There's a lot of stupid out there!
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post #5 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 02:19 PM
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PS. I just watched the video. I like that horse a lot. Very nice horse! The only thing I found interesting is that he almost seemed to speed trot him into a canter. I thought horses trained to a higher level (than I am used to anyway) would have a separate cue for the canter......not just trot him so fast he breaks into a canter. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? I saw that twice in the video so I don't think it's an accident. It made it look like the horse was reluctant to canter. And then I thought, maybe that's just how they taught him to canter? That or the horse was reluctant to canter?

Anyway, I'm not an expert at anything, and I spend my life at the bottom end of the horse market so what do I know. I'm sure that lovely horse is more than I could afford! But I just thought I would mention it for discussion's sake because that was something I noticed.

Also, any horse that neck reins nicely could theoretically be ridden bridle-less. Especially in an arena doing things he's been drilled on. So while that's nice, I don't think it means much. More of a party trick to try to impress people.

There's a lot of stupid out there!

Last edited by trailhorserider; 04-09-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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post #6 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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The speed trot to canter instead of distinct queues was was something I noticed as well. I couldn't tell if he was asking for the canter and the horse needed to speed trot to hit it, or if he just sped up the trot until it broke into a canter and he never asked for the canter, or if the horse is learning that transition and he is asking for the canter and just speeding up the trot until the horse breaks over into the canter and then releasing the queue to teach the horse how to canter on command, essentially using the bigger trot as a pre-queue that will eventually be dropped.

The horse isn't being evented at the sale so if I like his conformation I will ride him and see what I think. I think this horse has a couple of holes, that may well be one of them.

I talked to the seller and he isn't competing on this horse, he said it is because he wants to win the competitions part and he has another horse that is better trained that he will be competing on and he doesn't want to have to juggle the two. To me it sounds like the horse has more holes than he wants to admit as there are other people in the sale that are competing on as many as six different horses they have consigned.

You'll also notice that this horse never relaxes during the rides, its head is always up and it is slightly concerned about everything it is doing, not badly but for an eleven year old it is more concern than I would like to see in simple tasks.

He bumps to a stop instead of a smooth transition so he isn't really dropping his rear end much/enough for the gait he is in, it makes for a stop that will pitch you forward in the saddle if you aren't ready for it.

There are some other things I noticed and I made notes on but I will be looking at all those things in depth on Friday. I can live with some holes others I can't so the evaluation Friday when I can actually be on the horse in person will tell me if I want to bid on him or not on Saturday.
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Last edited by AndyTheCornbread; 04-09-2019 at 02:49 PM.
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post #7 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 10:03 PM
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Tell us how it goes.......and if you come home with a horse!

There's a lot of stupid out there!
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post #8 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 10:15 PM
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I really like that horse! I really really don't think it will grey, like someone else said I really can't believe the registration papers weren't correct.

I had a friend that got a tri-colored paint as a baby off of a nurse mare..... she was grey by 4..... but you can still see where the paint is
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post #9 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyTheCornbread View Post
I talked to the seller and he isn't competing on this horse, he said it is because he wants to win the competitions part and he has another horse that is better trained that he will be competing on and he doesn't want to have to juggle the two. To me it sounds like the horse has more holes than he wants to admit as there are other people in the sale that are competing on as many as six different horses they have consigned. It could be he has young kids and maybe not have the money to enter more than one horse?

You'll also notice that this horse never relaxes during the rides, its head is always up and it is slightly concerned about everything it is doing, not badly but for an eleven year old it is more concern than I would like to see in simple tasks. - Seems that maybe bothered by the spurs? But my horses don't always have a lowered head especially working around their buddies.....


There are some other things I noticed and I made notes on but I will be looking at all those things in depth on Friday. I can live with some holes others I can't so the evaluation Friday when I can actually be on the horse in person will tell me if I want to bid on him or not on Saturday.
I wish you the best of luck either way!
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post #10 of 28 Old 04-10-2019, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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@lb27312

It doesn't cost to enter the events as far as I know they are purely for demoing the horses for buyers, and given what these horses bring at this auction even if there was it would be a drop in the bucket compared to what they will get with a horse that shows well. Usually if they aren't showing a horse at this auction it is because the horse does things they don't want on display to potential buyers.

It isn't that I am looking for a lowered head especially artificially it is that I am looking for relaxation through the poll so that you know the horse is 100% OK with what he is doing, not carrying any rabbits so to speak. That horse looks like he carries 1 - 2 rabbits through the entire thing, and yes it could be worry about the spurs. But like I said for an 11 year old carrying a small amount of worry through simple circles isn't a plus for them on my "should I drop that kind of money on a horse". Even grade horses at this auction can go for $15,000+ depending on what they can do.

Worry is something that is usually fairly easy to teach a horse to get rid of and then they naturally relax through their poll. It doesn't always mean a lowered head but as they relax and do their thing it generally does. Even if there are other horses near by the horse should be checking in with me, then looking at his destination then to me then his destination ..etc. Not checking in with his buddies, his mind should be with me.

I will still be taking a hard look at this horse and several other because just because it has a few holes doesn't mean it isn't something I can't change and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, add what is essentially your own. - Bruce Lee
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