What patterns and dilutions should I test for? - The Horse Forum
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By blue eyed pony
  • 1 Post By blue eyed pony
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 10-16-2020, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 2
• Horses: 0
What patterns and dilutions should I test for?

So I was thinking of getting my new horse DNA tested for coat color and patterns, but I'm not sure what I should test for. Obviously she's a red base color but what's throwing me off is she has black, dark red, and obviously white in her tail but she doesn't have dark hairs anywhere else like legs, face, or mane. For that reason I don't think she's a roan, but what about sabino, champagne, or dun? Should I test for any of those? I do not have her papers and I was told she is a paint but she moves like a saddlebred so I'm not 100% sure of breed. I'm in the process of tracking down the original owner but in the mean time I thought I would ask someone better at this than me. Bonus question: Does anyone know a reliable test that can pinpoint breed?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20200620_161415_1602829381982.jpg (170.7 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200620_161227_1602829523104.jpg (167.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200512_171111_1602829588555.jpg (213.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200519_165025_1602829660380.jpg (142.3 KB, 7 views)
Linge0 is offline  
post #2 of 10 Old 10-16-2020, 02:39 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,227
• Horses: 5
She is definitely red based, I'd do a white pattern panel (ie one that tests for every white pattern) plus cream, dun, and agouti. Agouti doesn't have any visual effect on a red base but it's interesting to know if you ever plan to breed her (as it determines whether she can produce black or bay when bred to a horse with dominant extension). As for cream vs dun, I'm not convinced she's cream because of how dark her mane is in the coloured part, but I'm not convinced she's dun because her ears lack darker bars on the back. As for other dun factors, she's white where all of them express, so she won't show them regardless.

Her white pattern/s MIGHT be colour shifting her to a lighter shade of red, so she may not be cream OR dun, but if she is, you'll know if you test for them!

She is not champagne because her skin is black where she doesn't have any white. Champagnes have speckled/salmon coloured skin.
JoBlueQuarter likes this.

MAKORA THOROUGHBRED SPORTHORSES
blue eyed pony is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 10-16-2020, 01:01 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 11,047
• Horses: 12
The only thing you know for sure is that extension would be ee. Not all white patterns are testable so eventhough you would have results for some it may not be the complete picture. As for testing for breed you can send DNA to Tx A&M. It doesn't report percentages and will show 3 but if it came up with QH and TB or SB then you could be sure Paint or Paint x

Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.
QtrBel is offline  
post #4 of 10 Old 10-16-2020, 01:13 PM
Foal
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Rural SW Oregon
Posts: 167
• Horses: 0
I see QH and Saddlebred in her visual woodpile. A pretty mare.... :)
AragoASB is online now  
post #5 of 10 Old 10-16-2020, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 2
• Horses: 0
Thanks for the great comments. She could be either APHA with a mixture of QH and Thoroughbred or Saddlebred something. We have a few Saddlebred breeders in the area. Either way... she is wonderful and this rescue I'm keeping.
Linge0 is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 10-17-2020, 04:40 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,227
• Horses: 5
Oooh now I look again, that dark ear rim COULD be dun, or it COULD be colour shifted and she COULD be bay or even black based. There are multiple white patterns that will colour shift a horse quite dramatically - I remember seeing a photo of an Appy filly you'd swear up and down was palomino, but she was tested grulla. LP is weird, but sabino and several of the White Spotting genes will also colour shift a horse, and sometimes to that degree. I think I would test her for extension on top of the tests I already listed.
JoBlueQuarter likes this.

MAKORA THOROUGHBRED SPORTHORSES
blue eyed pony is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 10-17-2020, 08:57 AM
Foal
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 146
• Horses: 0
She's very pretty! I'm no color expert but was wondering if she could be buckskin? If you want to color/pattern test her you could browse www.animalgenetics.us and see if that site seems to be what you are looking for. Good luck!
Palfrey is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 10-17-2020, 01:37 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 6,810
• Horses: 0
I just wanted to say she's gorgeous!

I'm guessing sabino AND tobiano as far as patterns go.........but I really don't know as much about genetics as I would like. When a lot of people say "Paint" what they really mean is "pinto" so you are probably more educated than the person who told you she is a Paint if you think she moves like a Saddlebred. In the photo with her head lower she really looks like a Paint, but I can see how she looks more like a Saddlebred in the other pictures. So I don't know on that. But I believe sabino gives tobiano ragged edges and face white so that's why I say both. I would say sabino without a doubt. IF she's a Paint and if you ever bred her, you would probably want to test her for frame too.


trailhorserider is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 10-17-2020, 03:04 PM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 11,047
• Horses: 12
APHA is essentially the registry started for the crop out AQHA. Those AQHA with "excessive" white at one time were denied registration. At this point they can be registered but there is a notation placed about the excessive white. On the opposite end when an APHA is born solid they are able to register as solid APHA. Presently you can dual register those that qualify.

Because APHA is basically AQHA with too much white the dna ancestry test does not include APHA as they would have the same markers as AQHA.

Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.
QtrBel is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 10-18-2020, 03:32 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 7,227
• Horses: 5
Following on from what @trailhorserider said about frame - ANY horse of unknown lineage (or known lineage from breeds that have frame) should be tested for frame before breeding, or bred only to horses that are tested negative for frame. Whether there is visible white on the animal or not. There are numerous cases of frame-positive horses with no white on them at all. Some are minis and we all know minis take expression and lack thereof to extremes, but one I know is a dun QH, not a fleck of white on her, but her owner tested her and she came back positive for frame.
Frame does not always express loudly, or at all.

MAKORA THOROUGHBRED SPORTHORSES
blue eyed pony is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome