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Thoughts on this Gelding

5K views 32 replies 17 participants last post by  The Equinest 
#1 ·
Hello All!

Long story short, I found a 3 year old gelding I am very interested in, however, he is VERY butt high. He is being sold by a breeder who says " his front pasterns and fetlocks get sore when he goes through big growth spurts. He has been seen by 2 vets and farrier and all have said he should lead a perfectly normal life once he has matured." Essentially he was growing too fast and they purposefully held onto to him to ensure that he was not started too early.

I will try to attach some photos, but in your experience, has a horse ever leveled out after 3? Before purchasing I will definitely get a vet check, but curious if anyone has ever gone through something like this. He is supposed to reach about 16h, he's about 15.2h now, but it appears his hind end matches 16h. I don't plan on doing anything more strenuous than trails and arena work BUT, don't want to go looking for trouble..


 
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#2 ·
So a lot of horses grow that way, grow a lot in the front and are low in the back, or high in the butt and low in the front. Most horses level out, but since they are still growing like that, I would not ride him at all until he is level due to the fact that you can permanently keep him like that, but I have a feeling that you are more than knowledgable to know that. :)) So yes, a lot of times they will level out with time and rest. God bless :))
 
#5 ·
Most horses that are butt - high or top - high will have lameness in their feet due to the fact that there is a conformation issue. The top will eventually catch up, but it may lead to long - term lameness and/or a sore back. That will not always happen, but when horses have huge growth spurts like that and are in that position for a little bit, it can cause long - term problems because the body is trying to develop around that high - butt and not with the even body. It will get uncomfortable for them to walk since they are unbalanced, thus the lameness. I'm sorry if that didn't make the most sense, I can only explain in person, and not text. lol. I hope this helped, thank you for getting back to me :))
 
#7 ·
Hmm, by 3yo & that(if pics are accurate) amount of difference, I'd think he will always be 'butt high' but may even out a little more. If you're only trail riding & light arena stuff, then saddle fit may be your only real issue with that.

What concerns me more is that he was 'grown up' too quickly, resulting in 'growing pains' to the degree of lameness(what kind of lameness? How long/frequently?). I'd want to look carefully into that. Could be just a matter of well balanced nutrition - for eg. perhaps too little omega 3 & magnesium is leaving him 'tight' in the muscles when his bones were growing, but could be OCD or something more problematic. Could also be lameness due to hoof probs or such, related more to management than conformation/growth.

Most horses that are butt - high or top - high will have lameness in their feet due to the fact that there is a conformation issue. The top will eventually catch up, but it may lead to long - term lameness and/or a sore back.
Having been around horses vast majority of my life, having been a farrier for the past 20 years, I have never experienced anything of the sort. *However* I also don't recall too many severely 'butt high' horses - most I've seen are to the degree of OP's horse but at younger ages, or less imbalanced than him.
 
#9 ·
(I can't see the pictures right now.)

What breed is he? If he's a QH/Paint, it's likelier that he might stay butthigh. If not, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Horses don't really stop growing till 6-8, and many of the babies I've had have seemed to 'level out' at 3-4, and then hit a growth spurt again at 4-5 and then finally filled out and reached full maturity at 6-8. It varies per horse and breed however exactly how they mature however.

Speaking conformationally, butthigh doesn't necessarily mean downhill movement. It does put more weight on the horse's forehand and it makes it harder for him to actually lift the forehand to a degree that he can travel along nicely, but it doesn't mean that he's actually traveling in a truly downhill manner. Depending on the degree of butthigh, it might cancel out other good elements of his conformation, or it might only negate them to a slight degree. It certainly is an unwanted trait because of saddle fitting in self-carriage issues, but it's not a terrible fault like sickle hocks or post legged that will almost always cause some sort of soundness issues throughout the horse's life.

Being sore when going through a growth spurt is pretty normal in my experience. Not everything on the horse is growing at the same rate, so he's left in a slightly unabalanced state compared to a properly mature horse. Not to mention, the differentiation of growth rates in bones and tissues can shift the placement of certain things temporarily, until everything else catches back up. I'd have a vet check it, absolutely, but it's not a major turn off in my opinion.
 
#10 ·
I found a good article to support my statement. I also talked to vet, who is my best friends mom, and she said she had a horse when she was in younger and had the same problem with becoming lame when he was butt - high and she sent me this article. Now, they won't fully even out, but he will get better and a little more balanced. The saddle fit is also a huge part of it as well, I would suggest a custom fitted saddle to him or a good thick saddle pad.
CONFORMATION FAULT: Downhill Balance is the link
 
#11 ·
He is being sold by a breeder who says " his front pasterns and fetlocks get sore when he goes through big growth spurts.
For myself personally, this would cause me to pass immediately on the horse.



Horses don't get sore when they grow. Clumsy, yes, but not sore.
 
#13 ·
My mare is built downhill - was hoping she would even out, but at 6 I don't think she will.

She has never experienced lameness from being downhill; our biggest challenge has been saddle fit.

I wouldn't pass on a horse just from being downhill (depending on what discipline you do). I am doing dressage with my mare, so I'm really in a pickle...hahaha.

But the lameness IS a concern and I would pass based on that.
 
#14 ·
I would pass on this colt, if it were me, just based on the pictures given. I do ride cowbred QHs which tend to be down hill but not like that. Although some of it could be the quality of pictures taken.

I haven't had an issue with colts being sore through awkward growth spurts but more imbalance (if I am riding them.)

As already mentioned,saddle fit is going to be tough if he doesn't have the wither. I think one of the most overlooked things in buying a horse is their back!
If you don't have the money to spend on a custom saddle I would be considering back shape. Yes, their backs change as they develop and are ridden. You can "ride a wither into a horse" on some but some you can't.
 
#16 ·
Thanks All!

I will most likely pass on him, however this has been a really interesting forum for my own knowledge. I already had to drop almost 3k on a saddle for my current older hard to fit gelding and would like to NOT do it again...

The owner is still going to send over some official conformation shots and I will post them here for my own knowledge!
 
#19 ·
had to drop almost 3k on a saddle for my current older hard to fit gelding and would like to NOT do it again...
I'd personally(not having the funds either to have custom fit saddles all round) take this into consideration when you're looking, perhaps take your saddle(s) with you to try on prospects... It is a big expense after all. Or do what I did & go treeless - not that they fit everything without adjustment still, but mine has replaceable panels, etc...
 
#18 ·
I was thinking of breeding my APHA mare, and this horse is exactly why I won't even consider breeding to another APHA. I believe they are breeding for the wrong thing- butt high is so common. And the overly straight hind legs.

I believe that horse is going to grow another inch or two in the front. If they have pictures of the sire and dam I would consider those pictures carefully, as that gives you a better idea of what you might get. Still i don't think you will have a level horse in the end.

Why is the western world breeding so many downhill horses? I think an infusion of thoroughbred blood is needed. Pick the front end out of the dirt. And the tree post straight hind legs??? Yuck.
 
#22 ·
Why is the western world breeding so many downhill horses? I think an infusion of thoroughbred blood is needed. Pick the front end out of the dirt. And the tree post straight hind legs??? Yuck.
I'm no conformation expert but most complain about the cowhorse bred QH being sickle hocked not straight other than halter horses.

Again not a conformation expert, but if this was a cowhorse prospect I'd say "no" due to the amount of downhill in combination of the weak loin (and not much of a wither) and lack of depth through the flank not his hind legs.
 
#20 ·
Yes definitely,

@loosie I do have a treeless that I love (bob Marshall) that I could use in between. I would agree with everyone as it wasn't so much the "butt High/down hill" situation that turned me off, but the lameness. That was fairly alarming!
@4horses His sire is actually fairly level and almost uphill (ironically) Not so sure what his mother looks like, but I will try to hunt her down...
 
#31 ·
So a new update. Here are some better photos of him. He seems very high for a 3 yr old QH
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187166254@N06/?
Will he ever catch up??

I'm not so much worried when a young horse is downhill, because they all usually go through that "fugly" stage at some point, but I would be very worried about the condition of his front feet. Hard to tell in the photos but looks like he's got some very long heels and could use a much better farrier. Those front feet do not look right at all. Which could account for why he's already got some lameness issues.
 
#24 ·
I looked at the newer photos and while I am certainly no expert on conformation he appears to have a very straight shoulder and the "pastern" concern I had is highlighted in these photos. Maybe he could be aided by a better farrier, but in the recent photos, his front feet are too far ahead of his LEGS, putting extra strain on the joints nearest the ground. Also he looks fairly light-boned below the knee, making them possibly prone to injury. While his "downhill" issue may correct itself over time, his front end is not what it should be.
 
#28 ·
And for those who DON'T know, they're not prone to Obsessive Compulsive Disorders of the knee & such!! It's Osteochondritis Dessecans if you want to look it up.

Just thought I'd put that up, as someone at a lecture I attended was a tad confused...
 
#27 ·
I'm definitely no expert on this, but I can tell you from my own experience, that my Paint/Arab mare kept growing until she was 7 years old.
Other than that, I can only say he's a cute horse, but I'm sure the others who posted before me know more about this matter.
 
#29 ·
I'd be concerned about those pasterns as well, but I think those absolutely horrible front feet are making the pasterns worse than they appear. They need a good farrier, soon, or he's going to have trouble staying sound. He is downhill(which is not something I would buy in a horse) but that's generally 99% of QH anyhow so you're not going to be able to avoid it except perhaps in the cases of running-bred TB's(First Prize Doc is a very handsome uphill stallion).

Moving on from that, the amount of weight he's naturally carrying on his front legs due to being downhill, his very low neck emergence, and being sickle hocked is pretty much going to guarantee he's going to have trouble lightening the forehand and traveling engaged and light. Him being butt high as a youngster isn't something I'd particularly worry about, especially at this level, but he will always be downhill. It's not too high that it would negate any good traits at the moment, but the problem is is that he doesn't have the good trait of being uphill so the butt-high-ness just adds onto his downhill-ness and will make it harder for him to engage and lighten. He'll likely have issues with shoulder control.

Overall.... for any type of riding I would pass on this guy. He's cute, but he's not built to be a working horse.
 
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