Do you use a mouth bit? Watch this video and let me know what you think. - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 86 Old 01-11-2017, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
i used to ride a horse that would only be without head tossing (when out on the trail) if he had a net over his nose. it didn't occur inm the coldest part of winter. it was the gnats hitting his nose that he could not tolerate. put the net over, and he was fine.
My mare's is all year round :( It seems worse in warmer months, or if the weather changes, not as bad when it's cold out but still noticeable if I take the net off. Sometimes though we still have a ride where she will be tossing no matter what, and then I just have to end the ride.
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post #42 of 86 Old 01-11-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
Just the title of the post told me pretty much everything I need to know. "Do you use a mouth bit?" Really? Appears to me this entire thing was written by someone who has likely never actually ridden a horse, let alone knows anything about training methods.

But I guess that's the way of the world these days; watch a couple dozen youboob videos and you're automatically an expert...never mind those of us who have spent decades acquiring the knowledge we have.
Its called "Post truth" apparently; ya can be anauthority on a subject because you decide you are and “feel” for it. And godhelp anyone who points out your lack of experience or actual knowledge; thems aform of violence.
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post #43 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 04:09 AM
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The OP is not a child.

I did finally watch the video, after being told I was being unfair to judge by one picture. Nope, it was exactly as predicted.
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post #44 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by VeryCoolSword View Post
This may come off as rude or whiny, and I apologize, but having read through this thread I'd like to say something about how hostile this community comes off as.

Though the OP was definitely not in the right, reading these responses and seeing how rude, close minded, and dramatic users of this forum are was just... appalling. The immediate comment "I didn't watch the video because the thumbnail was stupid" really set the tone for how generally pathetic this thread was.

Most, if not all of you, are adults, and not to sling insults, but you attacked OP like a group of 14 year olds. Instead of using your knowledge to point out WHY OP is wrong, and listening to their responses in order to tailor an educated response that will leave them more apt to see things from your point of view, you write passive aggressive and nasty "point and laugh" replies. Calling people stupid to their face does nothing but make them angrier and make you a snickering 8th grader. Nobody benefits.

I also apologize that I directly quote people in a "finger pointing" way, but Avna's statement of "I gather the OP has some difficulty translating what she is thinking to the written page. I also imagine that she was expecting more of a general-populace Facebook response to her post, which consists mainly of vigorous agreement with additions of more naivete, outrage, and blanket statements. There are also plenty of horse forums like that. But this isn't one of them."

What I saw in the responses to this thread were exactly that, but from the opposing point of view. It's easy to think you're the intelligent one that's fully in the right, and when you do, things go sour. Firmness in your beliefs does not equal being a rude stick in the mud. I implore you to think rationally and diplomatically before responding in order to educate, not degrade. The users I've learned from on here were the ones that were concise, polite, and thorough. I'm not inclined to listen to someone who berates and abuses me, nor someone who touts their words as the gospel truth. Most of humanity, I think, is the same.

This entire thread was embarrassing. Not for equestrians, not for people who use bits or don't use bits, but for the HorseForum community itself. After being part of other equestrian forums, how nasty this one is is glaringly obvious. HorseForum offers many good things, but far too often does it become a hyper-aggressive mosh pit.

Overall consensus after reading this: nobody one, nobody learned anything, and everyone walked away with a bad taste in their mouth.
I read through the entire thread and somehow didn't see all the things you are seeing. This forum is probably one of the more "mild" horse forums I am a member of. There are definitely a couple that the Op and her video would've been ripped to shreds without a second thought to courtesy or her feelings.

The reality is that this is the internet and a forum filled with people with many years experience with horses. If you're going to start such a controversial thread (that has been hashed out many times before) and make a blanket statement of abuse regarding methods, then you should be prepared for blunt responses, especially when you're using a poor example to backup your point.
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"Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better."
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post #45 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 10:45 AM
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Very --
I think the hostility you read in this thread comes from two things. Firstly, it comes from the fact that we (that is, those of us who had been here for years now) have seen this exact thread time and time again. The argument (or suggestion?) that bits are the devil's work, and people who use them are abusive monsters (note the playfully sarcastic tone). I've seen it in "Horse Talk", I've seen it in "Horse Training", I've seen it in "Natural Horsemanship"...the list goes on.
Interestingly, this video, and all its short comings, has been used multiple times as well.
A conversation that is opened brashly is usually met with some degree of hostility. I'm sure that's understandable.

Secondly, I think it comes from an inability to convey tone over text.

In regards to the actual post? I'm sure you all know where I stand: live and let live xD If someone wants to ride
An effective, soft rider could ride with just about any bit and it wouldn't be too harsh.

And, to OP, it's important to remember that a number of disciplines will not allow you to compete (and therefore why bother schooling?) bitless.

The sensitivity of the internet baffles me.
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post #46 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 02:25 PM
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Something to think about. I read about this study in Equus Magazine years ago. It surely made me stop and think.

The prevalence of oral ulceration in Swedish horses when ridden with bit and bridle and when unridden
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post #47 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 03:02 PM
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Looking back over the video, I have to say that this is way way too broad. It's basically implying that anyone who uses a bit in any way, in any discipline is harming their horse. As a trail rider, we basically pack around on the horse on a loose rein, with the bit loosely fitted, using leg and seat cues to meneuver the horse around or over obstacles. This type of riding is much much different than even riding with light contact, as riding with light contact is much different than rollkur. I bitted my guy up today with a D ring snaffle and left him to pasture while I watched him carry it. While he was a bit fizzled at first (he's only carried a bit maybe three times) after all of ten minutes he was eating, drinking and walking around like there was nothing up at all.

Bits have come a long way for the comfort of the horse. Even "severe" bits are now designed to be comfortable when not engaged. I had a collection of antique bits and most of them truly did resemble torture tools. Bicycle chain wrapped in wire, "bear trap" spoon bits, Mullen mouth bits with jagged teeth filed into them, "stud bits" that were homemade, using anything from 20 gauge snare wire to "frayed" cable between two rings, to an actual spring welded onto two rings. Ouch. Compared to today's bits, I'd say that we have mild enough bits even when fully engaged that pretty much anyone can use them without causing undue damage to the horses mouth. Look at some sprenger bits (which I love) if you apply it to your wrist, foot or even your mouth if you're brave (crazy?) enough, you really can't find a way to pinch, cut or harm yourself.
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post #48 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 03:37 PM
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@knightrider I wonder, of those Swedish horses tested, how many wore a flash? a flash can really push the skin of the check tight against the molars and cause those problems. I did not read the whole article, though.
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post #49 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 04:11 PM
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Flashes do not run over the molars. There's no teeth where they go.

Regular french cavassons, though, do lay where the molars are. That is why it used to be customary to start young horses in drop nosebands and it would leave their changing teeth alone.
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post #50 of 86 Old 01-12-2017, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhattaTroublemaker View Post
Looking back over the video, I have to say that this is way way too broad. It's basically implying that anyone who uses a bit in any way, in any discipline is harming their horse. As a trail rider, we basically pack around on the horse on a loose rein, with the bit loosely fitted, using leg and seat cues to meneuver the horse around or over obstacles. This type of riding is much much different than even riding with light contact, as riding with light contact is much different than rollkur. I bitted my guy up today with a D ring snaffle and left him to pasture while I watched him carry it. While he was a bit fizzled at first (he's only carried a bit maybe three times) after all of ten minutes he was eating, drinking and walking around like there was nothing up at all.

Bits have come a long way for the comfort of the horse. Even "severe" bits are now designed to be comfortable when not engaged. I had a collection of antique bits and most of them truly did resemble torture tools. Bicycle chain wrapped in wire, "bear trap" spoon bits, Mullen mouth bits with jagged teeth filed into them, "stud bits" that were homemade, using anything from 20 gauge snare wire to "frayed" cable between two rings, to an actual spring welded onto two rings. Ouch. Compared to today's bits, I'd say that we have mild enough bits even when fully engaged that pretty much anyone can use them without causing undue damage to the horses mouth. Look at some sprenger bits (which I love) if you apply it to your wrist, foot or even your mouth if you're brave (crazy?) enough, you really can't find a way to pinch, cut or harm yourself.
Exactly. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with using a "severe" bit if the circumstance truly calls for it, and if the bit is used by proper hands. I'm not even one to just suggest a rider to "bit up", but if all other options have been exhausted and the horse truly needs a more "severe" bit, then I am all for it honestly. I have one of my mares in a 3-ring dutch gag, with the chain attached. I rarely need to use much contact with her using this bit, and she goes beautifully in it. I don't consider it harsh for her, but I have the option to have the bit come into play if I feel the need for it. However, if I had her in a simple O-ring french link (like my other mare) chances are it would be deemed as harsh or severe for her, as I could potentially be ripping her face off if a "bad" situation came in to play where I needed to use said bit. I prefer the "less is more" approach, but in some cases a stronger bit is truly needed, and in the right hands I see zero problem with that. In correct hands the bit should not be causing pain. Heck, a simple D ring snaffle can cause a heck of a lot more pain than a gag bit in the wrong hands.
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