Feeding an ulcer prone horse - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 15 Old 05-13-2017, 02:23 AM
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Also, I don't believe complete feeds should ever be used as a way to get balanced vitamins and minerals into a horse.

The amounts of vitamins and minerals are so small in these products, that you'd have to feed many pounds (and this is what the manufacturers always say on the label). But only the rare horse with no teeth or special health condition is going to eat a diet that is mostly pellets, because long stemmed forage is far healthier for their system. You can basically ignore the label as far as supplements go, and just feed a separate ration balancer or multivitamin to give your horse the vitamins and minerals needed.

For example, if you were to give a horse the amount of vitamin E he needs daily by feeding Triple Crown Senior, you'd have to feed at least ten pounds. So that's not the best way to get vitamins into horses.
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post #12 of 15 Old 05-13-2017, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Rumble513 View Post
Thank you! She thought it was a bad idea for him to be on senior grain because hes young and has no dental problems.
Yes, horses DO benefit from having to chew their food, and saliva is an acid 'buffer', so if they have adequate teeth to do it... But if the vet suggested Ultium instead, that makes no sense either, for the same reason - that's pelleted. Perhaps you can look for a similar product but more 'textured', or mix it with alfalfa, beet pulp or such. But so far as I know, aside from the 'chew factor', I don't believe Senior feed is at all bad for horses that aren't seniors - to the contrary, they're generally more easily digested & higher in 'cool' calories, so can be great for 'hard keepers'.

She said low fiber because hes out on a roundbale and doesnt need the extra.
OK, that makes sense... on the surface. But as pointed out, all 'fibre' isn't equal. Alfalfa & beet pulp for eg are both high fibre, low sugar, but high calorie. And you can't just feed a bunch of concentrates without fibre - well, you can, but that's more problematic for the gut, and especially if it's already compromised...

She thought scoping was a waste of money because he is showing all the signs of it... cinchy, underweight, hard keeper, bad attitude when ridden consistently, dull coat, cribs, and is off the track. We have him on a compound and if he doesnt show progress in 2 weeks we will run some bloodwork.
Yeah, tend to agree on the first - I would have assumed, given all that & not bothered scoping. And being off the track, high grain diets cause hind gut acidosis, I'd also assume hind gut ulcers were a given. What is the 'compound'? I wouldn't expect to see much if any changes in only a couple of weeks.

How can i do a analysis to find out what hes lacking? My barn grows their own hay and has had it tested so i can ask them for the details for that.
Well great start if you have a hay/pasture analysis. Then you just have to add in the other stuff you feed. FeedXL.com is one program for doing this without the headache, and they also list all the supplements & things you have available, to better work out which products will 'fill the gaps'. Or you can go to a nutritionist & get them to do the analysis.

As for not giving him anything other than forage I would be worried about him loosing even more weight.
Yeah, if the ulcers/gut upsets are treated(I think getting him off high octane racing fuel & onto free choice forage will go a LONG way of itself), he should do a LOT better on the forage, not likely need much other. I didn't mean don't give him any, but I wouldn't stress about the amounts & that you need to pump more into him, is what I meant.
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post #13 of 15 Old 05-15-2017, 10:55 AM
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Complete feeds are just what they say they are-meant to be fed almost as the entire diet, if not all.
Thus, soon as you add any other significant source of food, that entire balance, daily requirement, is out the window.
Supplements are supplements and compete feeds are complete feeds
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post #14 of 15 Old 05-15-2017, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Do you guys think i should continue giving him the aloe and the slippery elm during his treatment? Ive heard both yes and no.
Should I add a Vit. E supplement such as soybean oil?
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post #15 of 15 Old 05-15-2017, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Complete feeds are just what they say they are-meant to be fed almost as the entire diet, if not all.
Thus, soon as you add any other significant source of food, that entire balance, daily requirement, is out the window.
Supplements are supplements and compete feeds are complete feeds
Most people don't feed complete feeds as the horse's entire diet, but rather add a pound or two as a roughage based way to add calories.
I've added many, many complete feeds into the FeedXL program in the amount of 3-5 pounds along with a diet that consists mainly of analyzed hay (so we know the vitamin/mineral content). I've never yet seen a complete feed that unbalanced the diet. They mainly add calories to the diet and do not unbalance it.
I believe the nutritionists that make up these things try to keep them as close to a forage/pasture diet in balance as possible. So you're basically just adding "more" of what you're already feeding.

Just like if you feed timothy or fescue or orchard hay, they are all quite similar in nutritional balance to one another with just a little bit of difference. So they are interchangeable.

Now adding any type of grain or large amounts of one straight product will unbalance a diet. Such as if you feed straight oats, or many pounds of rice bran, beet pulp, etc.

It can't hurt to give the aloe and slippery elm, in my opinion.

I would not consider any oil or "source" of Vitamin E worth feeding just for the E content. Most are so low in E, regardless of the claims, that they can't be considered a supplement.
A cup of soybean oil has something like 17 mg of vitamin E, and horses need a minimum of 1,000 mg daily when not in work. The only real way to supplement Vitamin E is to give either capsules or a horse vitamin that has a significant amount of Vitamin E added to it.
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