Gelding gets sore footed after eating grain, - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 121 Old 04-22-2015, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Why is he shod with pads.
Sorry, but to me a horse shod with pads, that gets sore after being fed what I think is a heck of a lot of NSC, sounds like you need to rule out laminitis
A horse does not have to be IR, in order to be pushed over the edge, and in fact, once one has to deal with an IR horse, believe me, you feed the rest of your horses to prevent them from becoming IR!
A horse that has to be shod with pads, is not really a truly sound horse to begin with
I would suggest that you really check his diet and consider having someone who is good at mapping a hoof, able to detect hoof pathology, look at your horse.
Shoing can cover up a lot of soundness issues, until those issues come large enough that they no longer can be masked
For instance, a horse with distal decent, thus thin soles, can be made to move sound,, by those shoes keeping that compromised sole off of the ground, esp if pads also are used
Trail only has a few rocks, yet he needs pads?????


He's thinned soled and gets sole bruises if not shod with pads. No soundness issue till now,was sound when shoes were put on in march. He was sound all winter barefoot.

So no shoes aren't masking lameness he wasn't lame when he was shod,even last time he was sound,when done 3 weeks ago.

Diet was low sugar/starch over winter months but that doesn't keep weight on him during riding season,so switch to oats and calf-manna.

The farrier i have is the best one around here i can find.
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post #12 of 121 Old 04-22-2015, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
When he gets sore after that sugar rush, have you taken his digital pulse?
There are better ways to add calories to a working horse, then dumping grain at him, which can cause a bout of laminitis, with risk associated directly to amount fed
I would feed him a higher quality hay, like an alfalfa mix and add cool calories and beet pulp
No haven't taken his pulse when he's sore. He wont eat beet pulp and doesn't do powdered supplements. Have a heck of time getting him to eat the remmision.

I'll check his pulse in morning,when i feed.
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post #13 of 121 Old 04-22-2015, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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checked for a pulse its normal no heat either still sore. Gave him bute and he 100% now. Gotta go horses are loaded head off to test both horses for mounted patrol its a volunteer group.
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post #14 of 121 Old 04-22-2015, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Here's a pictures of both front's sole shot, Has shoes and pads.

Last edited by jazzy475; 04-25-2015 at 09:49 PM.
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post #15 of 121 Old 04-22-2015, 11:33 PM
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Can you post a side view, as solar shots are kind useless with pads and shoes.
Did you take that digital, pulse at the time he was sore-ie, time past his dump of NSC, so he can have a transient slight laminitic incident, at the time that blood sugar gets an insulin repsonse that affects the hooves, for that short period?
Slight laminitis, can leave no trace, as the stress caused at that time of high Gi (glycemic Index), is not enough to cause the lamini to fail, so once that sugar rush is gone, which causes the high insulin response, which affects the hooves, dissipates, the horse will be 'normal'
So, just to be clear, you checked his digital pulse when he was sore?
Far as beet pulp, it is a required taste
Feeding Remission to a horse that is not IR, makes no sense. Any horse can be pushed over the level where he can transport a given amount of blood glucose into the cells, and why founder can occur in a horse that is not IR and gets into that feed bin
Far as thin soles, it has been proven enough times that horses don't have thin soles because of some poor genetics. They are man made, either through slow distal decent or thinning the soles while trimming
Slow distal descent has the entire foot sink lower in the hoof capsule, with that hoof capsule becoming longer, while the sole becomes flatter and thinner

Whether or not, slight low grade laminitis and distal descent is going on with your horse, it is still worth reading the info on distal descent and how it relates to sole thickness

Distal Descent

And, the articled on sole thickness

Horses Sole
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post #16 of 121 Old 04-22-2015, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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I checked pulse while he was sore tonight its was up quite a bit. Can get side views tomorrow dark out now. He has flat soles has now for over a year.

Iv tried to get him to eat Beet pulp many times doesn't like wet feed. Very good reading on the links you gave.I give the remmision for the magnesium it has, he wont eat other magnesium supplements. Well he's not eating remission very good either. Also thought it would help calm him down but hasn't.

Last edited by jazzy475; 04-22-2015 at 11:54 PM.
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post #17 of 121 Old 04-22-2015, 11:59 PM
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IF it is the feed, first thing to ask, that I haven't seen questioned is 'sore 10-12 hrs after feed' Does this mean he only gets fed daily, or twice a day? Could be starch overload on a weak gut. But I think you know about little & often feeding, so think I'm missing something there.

So even this relatively small amount can indeed cause a laminitic 'episode' & I'd avoid high starch ingredients, particularly if you can't feed little & often. There are many good 'low carb' alternatives, such as copra for eg. I'd also look at nutrition, as if he's in a lot of work, his magnesium & salt requirements will be higher, among other nutrients that can affect the feet. Remission is not just for IR horses, and it's high in Mg. FeedXL.com is a good resource to help balance nutrition, but(unless they've changed recently) only considers conventional levels of Mg/Ca and IMO it pays to do a bit more study on this. gravelproofhoof.org has a lot of info, and sources to learn more.

If he's thin soled, uncomfortable bare or without pads on normal footing, then he's unsound IMO. I think that is what Smilie means by 'masking lameness'. And while (well) shod can prevent it worsening, conventional shoeing doesn't tend to help.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #18 of 121 Old 04-23-2015, 12:00 AM
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I'm trying to work this out in my head. He gets fed grain twice daily, right? So does he get sore twice a day too? Is it always the same time of day? What does he do that lets you know he's sore? What does he do when he's not sore? What time of day is he comfortable vs not comfortable? How long after a meal does it take for him to get sore? How long until he's comfortable again?

Was he sore over winter on the low NSC diet, or just since you switched him to keep weight on? Was he ridden much in winter? I know you said he gets skinny if you don't feed him his normal routine, and if he's a picky eater on top of it, that's even tougher.

What happens if you skip his grain for a week? Is he more comfortable foot-wise or the same? What happens if you give him a dose of bute? Is he more comfortable or no difference? (I am NOT suggesting long term bute! Just interested in how it affects him to try and figure out what might/might not work or be going on.)
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post #19 of 121 Old 04-23-2015, 12:02 AM
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If he's such a fussy eater, doesn't like supps, could be sign of ulcers. A damaged gut can also allow toxins to leak out, a known cause of laminitis, which would make him more 'sensitive' to rich meals...

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #20 of 121 Old 04-23-2015, 12:05 AM
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Well if my horse got sore after giving him grain, he wouldn't get any grain. He would get top quality hay & pasture, 24/7.

Maybe that's too simple?
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