Mini Horse Quidding After getting Floated - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 05-28-2020, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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Mini Horse Quidding After getting Floated

Hello!
I have a 19 year old mini gelding. He got diagnosed with Cushing's about 1.5 months ago. Started him on pergolide and he seems to be doing a better, although he is loosing weight (his main symptoms were immune system related {like hair lose from minor skin infections}).

He was fine until he went off grain a month ago for about a week, so I got his teeth floated. Went back to eating his grain (not as eagerly as he used to, but he finishes it most days). He seemed fine until about 3 days ago when I noticed that he started quidding his hay (which he had never done before). I thought this was strange because his teeth should be in great condition right now... He didn't require any major work when he got them floated about 2 weeks ago. Any ideas on what could be causing this? Is this typical for a horse his age?

Thanks!
-Gracie
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post #2 of 14 Old 05-29-2020, 04:34 PM
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Did the vet float his teeth or did an equine dentist float them?

Also was what method was used - a manual float with a file or was the Mini tranquilized and a power float done?

With either method, it is possible something got nicked that shouldn’t have and the Mini may now be fighting a bit of infection in its mouth.

You might smell his mouth and in his nostrils to see if there is a hint of foul odor. Even if there isn’t, who ever did the dental work needs to be contacted. He should, or be quidding if the work was done correctly.

Also with Cushings, while some weight is lost, muscle mass is what goes to pot first.

When you say “Pergolide”, you do mean Prascend? How much does he receive daily. With his tooth issues are you making sure he is receiving his dosage or is it going into the feed pan and you’re not sure?

My IR/Cushings horse only gets 1/2mg daily. I have to cut that in half and put it in a pice of apple because he does not clean his feed pan dry.

When you say “immune system related” - a what sort of minor skin infections. Was the hair loss from itchy rubbing or did it just fall out?


Is he receiving any sort of vit/min supplement that also has amino acids included?.

It sounds as if there may be more than one issue that needs addressed but to reiterate
, he should not be quidding if his teeth were done correctly:)
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I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #3 of 14 Old 05-29-2020, 06:10 PM
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^What she said. Call the dentist.

Also as you've obviously consulted vet for Cushing's treatment, prob telling what you know already, but correct dosage is individual per horse & a bit trial & error. And it's not just the coat that may grow excessively, but teeth & hooves too, so require more frequent attention than normal.
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-30-2020, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
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Hello! Thank you so much for your informative replies. I'll try to answer all of your questions!

He gets 1 ml of a liquid pergolide suspension. He is getting his levels retested soon to establish whether his dosage is adequate.

His skin issue was that he was super itchy and would rub himself until his hair fell out and he bled. The vet was the one who identified it as a immune issue. This issue has gotten about 90% better since we started treating the Cushing's.

My normal large animal vet does not do teeth, so I had a different veterinarian do it. He specializes in dentistry and used a power tool for it while the horse was very heavily sedated. After doing some research and reading your suggestions, I'm thinking that he might have some kind of an infection from getting nicked with the power tool or something (he was bleeding quite a bit after... Blood dripping out of his mouth). I think I'll reach out to both my normal vet (who I would prefer to use for treatment) and the vet who did the dental work.

I just adopted him a few months ago, but could already tell that he had some muscle wasting from the Cushings when I look back at pictures. I would hate to see him loose more weight, so I'm hoping to get the quidding resolved and the Cushing's meds properly adjusted soon.

Thank you so much again for your input
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-30-2020, 06:55 AM
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——-
Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoo 1 View Post
hello! Thank you so much for your informative replies. I'll try to answer all of your questions!

He gets 1 ml of a liquid pergolide suspension. He is getting his levels retested soon to establish whether his dosage is adequate.

His skin issue was that he was super itchy and would rub himself until his hair fell out and he bled. The vet was the one who identified it as a immune issue. This issue has gotten about 90% better since we started treating the cushing's.

yes, that makes sense:). My IR/cushings fella does not have skin issues but i have seen one or two other things resolve themselves since he has been on Prascend.

If you can see your way to buy from horsetech, i have my horse on their soy-free, no added iron condensed vit/min supplement.

I feed three ounces daily to my 1,100 pound walking horse; the cost is 86 cents daily. You would be able to feed your mini less:)

https://horsetech.com/high-point-grass

It comes in both pellet and meal form:)

this supplement includes lysine, methionine, and threonine. All necessary amino acids for muscles:)


my normal large animal vet does not do teeth, so i had a different veterinarian do it. He specializes in dentistry and used a power tool for it while the horse was very heavily sedated. After doing some research and reading your suggestions, i'm thinking that he might have some kind of an infection from getting nicked with the power tool or something (he was bleeding quite a bit after... Blood dripping out of his mouth).


i have had both methods done to my horses. I can say without doubt, there should not have been any bleeding whatsoever, unless a tooth was pulled.

FWIW, there is a secondary artery in the roof of the mouth that is very close to the inside of the mouth. Had that been nicked (and maybe it was, ever-so-slightly, he could have bled to death. At least that is what the equine dentist who once worked on my horses told me.

Further to this, none of the vet’s I do business with would use power tools on my horses, once they developed metabolic issues and were reaching for their 20’s.

Partly because they try to avoid using that type of drugs on metabolic horses, partly because I have Walking Horses, which are known to be drug sensitive at any age. It can get worse as they get older and I would worry about that with any senior, metabolic horse:)

Agree to try and get your normal vet out, as quickly as possible. I might wait to talk with the dentist who did the work until after you speak to your regular vet.



i think i'll reach out to both my normal vet (who i would prefer to use for treatment) and the vet who did the dental work.

I just adopted him a few months ago, but could already tell that he had some muscle wasting from the cushings when i look back at pictures. I would hate to see him loose more weight, so i'm hoping to get the quidding resolved and the cushing's meds properly adjusted soon.

Thank you so much again for your input
Thank you for rescuing him:). You are doing everything you can for him. I hope his issues get resolved soon:)
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I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #6 of 14 Old 05-30-2020, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for your help, walkinthewalk. I am new to horses (have owned lots of other livestock, but I'm learning that cattle and pigs are a lot different to care for than horses!), so all of your advice is very helpful to me!

I went and watched videos of what a float normally looks like, and what I noticed is that the vet who did my horse did not rinse the horse's mouth out at any point. All of the videos and written descriptions I saw had this a step to prevent infection, so maybe because he skipped this he introduced bacteria.

In any case, I scheduled an appointment with my normal vet for an exam and blood work. I will update on here once I find out whats wrong!

I will look into adding a supplement. I hadn't thought of adding that to combat the muscle wasting.

Thanks again!
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post #7 of 14 Old 05-30-2020, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Hello!
While doing research about older horses with Cushing's/dental issues I came across Triple Crown Safe Starch. Seems like it is hypothetically great for him (I have had a hard time getting him to eat any low starch pellets), but it is somewhat expensive. Does anyone have any experience with this feed product? Would it be worth the cost?
Thanks!
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post #8 of 14 Old 05-30-2020, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moomoo 1 View Post
Hello!
While doing research about older horses with Cushing's/dental issues I came across Triple Crown Safe Starch. Seems like it is hypothetically great for him (I have had a hard time getting him to eat any low starch pellets), but it is somewhat expensive. Does anyone have any experience with this feed product? Would it be worth the cost?
Thanks!
A lot of folks like it for their metabolic horses. A good friend had her IR/Cushings horse on the TCSS for a long time.

Hopefully folks who have used it will comment. I never did because the nearest TC dealer was a hard 40 miles away.

It does have the amino acids, mentioned above and it does have some level of probiotics.

The main thing that makes Triple Crown products a top shelf product, is they always list their ingredients. Other top names do not. You would be buying one of the best feeds out there, for the money.

One thing I have learned with my two metabolic horses is: if something is going to work, it won’t be cheap

Whatever product you buy, be sure to feed the minimum amount on the bag, for his weight. Anything less will be a waste as he won’t receive the guaranteed amount of vitamins & minerals listed on the bag:)

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #9 of 14 Old 06-01-2020, 01:14 AM Thread Starter
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Update: Rudy started having a very weepy eye and runny nose, both on the left side of his face. I am thinking that he might have some kind of sinus infection caused by an infection in his mouth. His cushing's has lowered his immune system, so I think that maybe something that went wrong during his dental appointment put him at risk for this secondary infection. He has an appointment for next Saturday, but I will try to get it moved up now that I think that an infection is likely and spreading. I will update again if anything changes. Please let me know if you think that this could be caused by something else!
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-01-2020, 03:56 AM
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That left jaw looks fat too, tho that could be just pic angle. Yeah, not normal for any/much blood with routine dental work. I'd want the vet urgently for that one. If the dentist was unconcerned/oblivious & didn't say anything about the blood, or to call him if any concerns or such, I don't like to judge, but I would certainly have questions about his competency &/or ethics.
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