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post #1 of 11 Old 10-22-2019, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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New feed

So I just bought this food and having a hard time figuring out how much to feed my filly... the vet thinks she is about 650 lbs! How much do I feed her?
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post #2 of 11 Old 10-22-2019, 08:05 PM
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Not enough information....you need to narrow the information field, provide more details than what was shared.


What manufacturer and what product exactly is this screen shot from?
Hay only?
Pasture only?
Combination of hay and pasture?
Workload and age of the horse?
Is your horse underweight, overweight?

Many things come into planning a feeding plan and how much to feed...
...
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post #3 of 11 Old 10-22-2019, 10:47 PM
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So I did some digging to figure out what is what....
Found your feed on the Canadian Purina site... https://www.equipurina.ca/documents/...uvenile_EN.pdf

The directions say a minimum of 1% of body weight in hay/pasture needs fed.
The chart supplied by you is depending upon age...minimum to maximum amounts fed.
So... a minimum of .95 for a 650 pound filly = 6.25 pounds of feed.
.75 pounds per hundred of the filly @ 7 - 24 months, so 650 pounds = 4.87 pounds is just shy 5 pounds
Now...those were minimum weight fed.
Other end of feeding chart is ...
1.1 pounds per hundred = 6.6 pounds of feed fed regardless of age.
So, the total amount of feed for the day fed over 2 -3 meals is recommended!
For you, that means between 1.5 pounds to 2 pounds of food per meal x 3 meals = your total fed for the day amount

Make sure you follow these often not read directions...they are very important.
I bolded what is very critical information to good results and health maintained in your filly.

1. Purina recommends analyzing your hay and balancing the ration accordingly.
2. Feed clean and dust free hay in sufficient amount daily. Feeding poor quality hay or feeding inadequate amounts could cause colic and other digestive upsets.
3. Daily ration should be divided into 2 and preferably 3 separate feedings or more.
4. Use a scale to weigh your feed so you know exactly how much your horse is being fed. Do not feed by volume.
5. Purina recommends providing a maximum of 0.5% of body weight of this feed at one time.
6. These recommendations are intended as a guide. They should be adjusted to variables of management, environment and individual needs. Consult your Purina Equine Consultant if necessary.
7. Follow sound management practices along with optimal preventive veterinary medicine.


Only you know how old your filly is...
In most cases, a filly is a female horse under four years old. A foal is up to a year in age...so a large range of age "filly" covers.
Only you know what kind of hay you feed and the quality of that hay product and the consistency of that product.
Only you know the living conditions of the filly and housing and all of that is also needing taken under consideration.
...
jmo...
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post #4 of 11 Old 10-23-2019, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for helping me out! She is a 17 month old filly... thanks again
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post #5 of 11 Old 10-23-2019, 07:39 PM
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What else do you plan to feed with it? I do recommend giving her access to quality pasture or forage, testing that, and then balancing her diet from there.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Why it has more Vitamin A and D than Vitamin E is kind of strange, unless the Vitamin A and D are not readily bioavailable. That would be odd - Vitamin D3 typically is listed as the most bioavailable form of D there is. Dr. Kellon states that Vitamin A is likely to be the most over-supplemented vitamin, and oversupplementing is usually what causes Vitamin A toxicity. So let's use that as a starting point. I understand that part of the intention of this feed is to support healthy bone and muscle growth, but if I'm correct here, it goes about that in an awkward fashion. For example, Purina recommends balancing this feed with forage, but forage is a very easy source of Vitamin A (green forage and grass having the most concentration.) Similar with Vitamin D - sunlight and forage often provide the horse with sufficient. And yet Vitamin E is essential!

https://www.horsejournals.com/horse-...icities-horses

Assuming that Vitamin A is the limiting factor, let's do the math. If anyone feels this is incorrect or that I've made a mistake, speak up. I'm still new to feed calculations.

650 lbs = 294.835kg.

(Going off of NRC requirements) Vitamin A: It is recommended that horses up to age of 2 to have 45 IU per kg of body weight in Vitamin A. This is likely to be the upper limit for a young horse. If we go by this, your filly can safely consume up to 13267.575 IU of Vitamin A per day. The feed lists that it contains 11330 IU Vitamin A per kg of feed. If we're limiting the amount of supplement that your 650 lb filly gets by intake of Vitamin A, then she may safely consume 1.174 kg (2.57 lbs) of this feed, and you would have to monitor her other food sources that contain Vitamin A. Keep in mind that a ~7" fresh carrot probably contains around 8500 IU Vitamin A. So to round this off nicely, I'd feed about 2.5 lbs, split into 2 feedings of 1.25 lbs each.

Because Purina only recommends feeding up to .5% body weight of this feed, they claim that you should not feed more than 1.47kg (3.25 lbs) per day, for a 650 lb young horse. I don't know if I'd be splitting hairs by saying this, but I would still not feed much more than 2.5 lbs daily, especially if you plan to also feed forage or give access to green pasture.

Once your horse is over 2 years old, 30 IU Vitamin A per kg of body weight is more appropriate, according to NRC guidelines.

A note about "Guaranteed analysis": it means "these are the minimum amounts that are guaranteed in this batch of product." It says nothing about maximum amounts. Only calcium is listed with a minimum and maximum. This requires us to take further caution against feeding too much. Like I said, I'd stick with 2.5 lbs. If you want to be more certain of the amounts and proportions you're getting in a single supplement feed, you're looking for a 'typical' or 'average' analysis. You can probably request this information from Purina, via E-mail.

This feed seems to offer a good coverage of trace minerals, but it doesn't list them in ppm. So I have no idea how much of each is in it. You'd want to keep an eye on iron (Ferric oxide) and manganese, and make sure there's plenty of zinc and copper in comparison. Iron and manganese can block the absorption of other minerals, typically zinc and copper. That's why I mention it.

No diet, no hoof. No hoof, no horse. No horse is not an option!
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post #6 of 11 Old 10-23-2019, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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She is on grass hay .. she is out with my other horse in the dry passure so she has grass hay whenever she wants it.
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post #7 of 11 Old 10-23-2019, 11:41 PM
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Sorry but, unless there's more to that guaranteed analysis than what's in the picture, I would not feed that to any horse of any age.

Where are the trace minerals for starters.

I know you're in Canada and feeds differ some from the U.S. but I also know Canada has a lot better horse feed offerings than this:)

This is a fairly recent article from Kentucky Equine Research in the U.S.

https://ker.com/equinews/feed-manage...arling-horses/

That should be a helpful aid to correctly feeding your 17 month old. She is still growing/developing and needs a lot more than what that feed label shows.

The tag you posted doesn't even list the ingredients -- it doesn't matter which of my critters I am feeding or their age --- no listed ingredients means the stuff is probably junk and won't be in my truck:)

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #8 of 11 Old 10-24-2019, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinthewalk View Post
Sorry but, unless there's more to that guaranteed analysis than what's in the picture, I would not feed that to any horse of any age.

Where are the trace minerals for starters.
That analysis isn't complete - I was confused too. Here's the actual page for the feed. They don't list trace minerals in PPM, they just give a general list of which minerals are included.

https://www.equipurina.ca/en/product...tion/juvenile/

No diet, no hoof. No hoof, no horse. No horse is not an option!
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post #9 of 11 Old 10-24-2019, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feathers7 View Post
That analysis isn't complete - I was confused too. Here's the actual page for the feed. They don't list trace minerals in PPM, they just give a general list of which minerals are included.

https://www.equipurina.ca/en/product...tion/juvenile/
Thanks for that link:)

In true Purina fashion, they still refuse to give an analysis of the trace minerals, and they have never had fixed formulas.

Hopefully this feed will do justice to your filly:). If you see changes in her that you don't like, or her hoof and coat health falters, try and find a feed for her age that has a fixed formula:)

A Good Horseman Doesn't Have To Tell Anyone; The Horse Already Knows.

I CAN'T ride 'em n slide 'em. I HAVE to lead 'em n feed 'em Thnx cowchick77.
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post #10 of 11 Old 10-25-2019, 02:34 AM
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To the OP: I'd E-mail Purina for a complete breakdown of this feed. Don't be tempted to think 'but I have to do SOMETHING! Come on, this is Purina we're talking about...' just don't do it. Wait for them to get back to you, and post the results here so we can either give it the thumbs up, or help you balance it out.

Really, what I would like to know is what's in your grass hay. If you can't send in a sample for analysis, I would peruse DairyOne's library of forage and see if you can find a regional analysis of your particular grass hay. That would be very helpful. Or let us know where you're located or where your hay comes from and we can help you.

What do I like about this feed? The attention to providing a complete set of amino acids, the diverse trace minerals, the focus on building healthy bone, and that it does at least contain some Vitamin E. It also contains flax - this helps remove dirt and buildup from the gut, and it also contains oils that add a healthy shine to the coat.

What do I not like about this feed? I have no idea how it's balanced, and that's the whole reason we feed what we feed is to balance the diet. I need more info about amounts of trace minerals, protein, fat, and carbohydrates (starch.) This supposedly supplementary feed also treats the young horse as if it will not be outside in the sun, and eating green grass or grass hay. It includes a huge amount of vitamins A in comparison to Vitamin E, which seems silly and makes no sense. Vitamin A at high levels is toxic, while Vitamin E is absolutely necessary to have enough of. I also despise feeding horses molasses (uugh), and I'm not partial to feeding corn (even extruded), but those are the least of my concerns.

I really want to be able to tell you that this feed is good, but I simply can't do that until I know everything that's in it. If you truly feel that you have to feed it because you bought it, message me first. I drafted a rough estimate of how to balance it out based on vitamins, protein, starch and carbs, and fat. There are other products you'll have to get, but they're not expensive and it will be worthwhile.

No diet, no hoof. No hoof, no horse. No horse is not an option!
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