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Wind sucker/crib biter

5K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  Beauseant 
#1 ·
Hi
I am in the process of buying a horse and have been looking for almost a year now. Have found a 7 y/o TB who sounds perfect for me - calm, good to road ride, had beginners on him and more of a kick along type. I am not a beginner but just getting back into it so like the idea of something that I can build my confidence on. I wasnt initially keen on a TB but he does sound ideal for me. I have spoken to the owner and everything she said about him sounds great - except that he is a wind sucker and/or crib biter. She didnt go into great detail about it only to say that he wears a collar and that works well. She is asking $2000 which seemed quite cheap however I understand why now, especially having read up on the problem a bit. He was raced when he was younger and stabled often which is why she thinks he does it. My problem is do I not bother even going to see him - they are over an hours drive from me so not that close. If he turned out to be perfect in every other way that would be fine but will I end up with a hard to sell horse when I'm ready to progress? Also we have limited grazing so I would either just have the one horse or get him a companion like a mini. It would also mean that during winter he would be stabled at night and turned out during the day to give our grass a break. Are there varying degrees of wind sucking and is it really such a frustrating issue? We will also be dividing our pasture up soon with post and rail and I wonder if that will end up getting destroyed. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
 
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#2 ·
If you have a collar on your horse, the fencing should be fine. I know this facility that has wood post and rail, and there is a horse that cribs, but she has a collar, and their fencing is fine. And really, if you really feel like this is the horse you have been looking for, something like cribbing isn't to much of a problem!
 
#3 ·
I agree! Sure, it's a frustrating habit to deal with, but compared to other nasty habits some horses have picked up, it isn't such a catastrophe that it should make you decline this horse.
 
#4 ·
I, personally, wouldn't buy a cribber but that's just me. Like others said, the maintenance and prevention of issues that go along with cribbing/wind sucking can get frustrating and expensive at times, but if the horse is perfect in every other way, you have to consider if he's worth it. Depending on the horse, some will say yes, others would say no.

There are preventative measures you can take to minimize the damage he can do to your property. You can run a line of electric wire around the tops of your fences so that he cannot put his teeth on them. Of course, try to keep a collar on him. If running wire isn't feasible, you can get metal corner covers to go over the tops of your boards so that when he does crib, his teeth are on metal instead of destroying the wood.

You'll also need to keep a close eye on his health as ulcers tend to go hand in hand with cribbing/windsucking. He'll also wear down and damage his teeth so regular visits by the dentist will be a must.

He'll just be a bit of a high maintenance horse, which is pretty common among TBs anyway from my understanding. If he truly is the kindhearted, mellow packer that you make him sound like and you are willing to deal with the cribbing issue, then he would certainly be worth a look, cribbing or not.
 
#5 ·
He'll just be a bit of a high maintenance horse, which is pretty common among TBs anyway from my understanding.
LIES!

:think::think::think:

Then again, half the time our TB makes me feel like pulling my hair out!! The other half the time I feel like pulling HIS hair out!!

There may be some truth to that statement after all!

Seriously, the TB part is a bigger deal than the cribbing part, in my book.:lol::lol::lol:
 
#6 ·
We dont consider cribbers, not because we have a problem with cribbing, but because they are higher maintenance, and there are so many horses to be bought out there without any vices.
If you have him at your place, you really like him and you dont mind the added expense of teeth (should be done more often depending on how much they wear down) and wearing a cribbing collar etc. go for it.
Although there is no research to prove ulcers and cribbers are related I agree with smrobs that some cribbers do in fact have ulcers and I think if I did decide to buy a cribber the first thing I would do is put them on ulcer medication to see if it resolves. I have heard other horsepeople say they have solved cribbing with ulcer meds. but it is only hearsay.
 
#7 ·
Thanks everyone for your input. I have sent the owner an email to get a bit more info on him before going to check him out. Do horses usually do one or the other - crib bite or windsuck - or both? Is one worse than the other or is it pretty much the same? I imagine if they crib bite then they would do more damage to their teeth and fences etc but if they wind suck then I guess they can do it anywhere without something to hold onto? Would a crib biter start wind sucking if they cant find something to hold onto? I find it a very confusing issue with some people saying its a genetic thing that cant be picked up by other horses and other people saying it can be learned or is caused by ulcers. Also why are TBs considered high maintenance, is it their breeding/upbringing or because they can be high strung? I orginally wanted a cross breed or qh or something similar because they seem to be more hardy but there are so many more TBs for sale and are generally much less expensive.
 
#8 · (Edited)
. Also why are TBs considered high maintenance, is it their breeding/upbringing or because they can be high strung?
U are going to find a variety of answers to this question.

1)Some will argue it's their blood, being descended from arabians that they are just naturally "hotter" than other horses.

2) Others will say it is caused by the lives they live being racehorses....


As someone who has an OTTB in my life: I will say it's probably a combination, but that answer #1 is the predominate reason.

The reasons why I choose anser #1 is that our OTTB is one of the most sane, calm and agreeable OTTBs you will ever see, he was pampered by his breeder and his family and only ran five races, so his time on the track was limited....but he still is WAY more "hot" than our draft or our departed QH ever was!! Physically, he is great, fantastic hooves, etc.....but he is an avid wood chewer and is in the process of chewing down the barn. THAT has caused some issues with digestion. He was tubed two weeks ago due to a bad choke. And is now experiencing intermittent swallowing movements....some days he swallows oddlly, others he doesn't. A vet that specializes in dentistry is coming Friday to do his teeth and examine him. He is also very high energy, and he needs to have room to run...luckily the place we are at has acres and acres of pasture for him to run in...I think it is unfair to keep a TB, especially an OTTB in a small paddock...it's like keeping a boarder collie or rottweiler in a box...certain animals have different needs due to their breed. Our draft doesn't need a huge pasture to run in as she only moves when she is being chased by the OTTB. A poodle doesn't need physical activity as much as, or in the same way as, a boarder collie....etc. Off trackers NEED room to run...see video



and this guy is a lazy, calm and sane TB. Hard to believe, huh?! Contrast the gray OTTB running about madly to that brownish speck in the background that is our Belgian draft...that speck moves very little. lol

So, yes, they are high maintenance in that they are usually higher energy, more explosive, more sensitive....and yes, those who spent time on the track definately have more physical problems.

So while both answers contribute .... I think that TBs are just more high maintenance mostly from their genetics. I say this because some of the most wild and mean TBs at a TB farm we used to board at never spent a day on the track.
 
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#10 ·
I owned a cribber who would crib on ANYTHING....lead ropes, hay bags, posts, you name it. The only collar that worked on him was the Rusty Dare collar...totally worth the money. The miracle collar didn't work at all. The collar also has to be so tight you feel like you're strangling the horse!

He cribbed more when he was hurting somewhere, I noticed. I did treat him for ulcers, but that did nothing.

I finally gave him to a friend of mine because I couldn't use him for what I needed...he was a loon at horse shows and trail rides. She uses him for lessons and he's great.

For me the cribbing wouldn't be a deal breaker, because I own my own place-I don't have to worry about boarding barns turning me down, and I can make them stop with a collar ;)

Resale value could be a concern-so you need to ask yourself what your priority is with horse ownership...if you plan on switching horses as you 'progress' rather than allowing the horse to progress with you, perhaps riding in a lesson environment is best-after all, that's a lot less expensive than horse ownership! If you do want to be able to 'flip' your horses when you're ready for the next, the cribbing is a red flag.

Also, I want to add that in the 4.5 years I owned my cribber, nobody else ever picked up the habit.

Pick up a pen and paper and write down a list of deal breakers.

If all else is great, can you live with a cribber?
A weaver?
A club foot?
Arthritis?
A wood chewer/teeth scraper type horse? You know, those that rake their teeth up and down saying "FEED ME, FEED ME!"
A horse that paws a lot at feeding time?
A horse that doesn't stop?
A horse that won't go?
A horse with a nasty scar?
A blue eye?

What makes a deal breaker for one person doesn't necessarily mean you should pass it up, and vice verse.
 
#11 ·
Thank you, christineNJ!! After alot of drama and turmoil at our ex farm, we began searching for a new place to keep our horses. It was a long search, spanning over six months...and because of our own personal preferences regarding how our horses are cared for, turnout, and our horse's special needs (Beau needed room to run and private turnout, and Epona needs a dry lot) we just couldn't find a place.


At our ex place, Beau and Epona were kept in a tiny dry lot paddock with no room to even trot, so Beau started chewing on the wood fence...the BO didn't like that one bit and threw a big fit...but it didn't bother her enough to keep her from offering to buy Beau from us a week later!!!!:? I think it was more about her wanting the horse than the horse chewing her fence.

This place kind of just fell into our lap. The owner was a 56 yr. old well to do woman (and her husband) who started to work part time out of boredom at the small grocery store where my adult daughter worked ... they struck up a workplace friendship...one day the owner was talking about her chickens so my daughter asked her if she lived on a farm and she said yes. My daughter mentioned that we had horses and were looking for a place to keep them. Her and her husband agreed to let us keep them there. 6 stall barn and 23 acres, heated tack room and bathroom and hot and cold running water... and we have it all to ourselves. No more drama, and Beau has lots of room to run.....and the owners are magnificently kind and caring people.

But even though he is out on pasture all day ....when he is put on dry lot for the night, he chews on the wood siding of the barn. This has stressed me so bad, but the BOs are more worried about the health risks to him rather than the damage he is doing to the side of the barn.

I wish he was cribbing instead of wood chewing. Cribbing would seem to be less damaging to the barn and fences.....:-:)-(
 
#12 ·
Hmm, after watching that video I wonder if it would be cruel to have a TB on our small block! I have just spoken to the owner to get a bit more information on him. When she brought him a year ago she was not told about his wind sucking and he was quite underweight. Once he had a collar fitted he quickly gained condition, and will go up to a post and attempt to wind suck then give up and go back to grazing. She did say if he has the collar off while being groomed he will do it if there's something to hold onto so she usually leaves it on until shes ready to go. So am going to see him tomorrow but I'm wondering if I really like him whether the $2000 price tag (NZ dollars) would be considered steep? Should I haggle (which I'm really bad at doing and feel a bit uncomfortable about) or just give the asking amount. I dont really know if people set a price knowing that they will get offered less. I'm not hugely fussed on the price but with mortgage repayments etc and other animals to look after I dont want to pay too much. I read somewhere that if a horse has a vice like that that you should take the amount they are worth approximately and halve it?
 
#13 ·
Twisted wire - thanks for your input. I guess when I mentioned 'progressing' I really meant if I got to a stage (hopefully never) where we either moved back to town or were in a situation where I needed to sell him. If he suits me now then its unlikely that I would ever want to upgrade to another horse since I only plan to ride for pleasure and not competing. I have done lessons and really just want a horse of my own that I can hang on with and spoil. So unless it got to a stage where I felt like my confidence had really increased and he was too 'ploddy' for me then he would be a horse for life. I am still amazed that a 7 year old TB off the track can be a kick along kinda horse though! I guess you just cant always lump all horses into the general characteristics of their breed. Hopefully tomorrow I will get a pretty good idea of whether he suits me and what I want him for. :)
 
#14 ·
Kiwi, please keep us updated and let us know how things turn out.

I do have to say, though, that 7 yr. old OTTBs USUALLY do not make the best plodding along trail horses. This is not a generalization of an entire breed, it is meant only to say that if you line up 100 7 yr. old OTTBs, 99 of them are not going to make good plodder trail horses...including ours.

That's what we bought him for, a pleasure trail horse, and here we are 2 years later....and he is STILL not a trail horse. Truthfully, I am not sure he ever will be. It's just not who he is....

Do we regret buying him? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Would we ever consider selling him? NEVER

He is sweet, cuddly, sane, calm and agreeable, he licks and nuzzles.... much like a dog...and we love him. But he is not now nor will he ever make a good trail horse....so, we find ourselves scratching our heads trying to figure out where to go from here....

Be very very sure that he is suited for what you want him for....he could be that one in a hundred suitable TB trail horse, but the chances are greater that he isn't.

So be sure, or you'll end up like us....with a really tall dog.:lol:
 
#15 ·
Every single Thoroughbred I have owned I have trail ridden and taken through town and I've owned a fair few, currently I have 3.

Varying from straight off the track to never raced, all of them were also ridden through town regularly, with no drama.

Sometimes you just gotta ride em, you can do as much groundwork and bombproofing as you like but its not the same as just getting them out there.

I also worked for a Thoroughbred Stud and all the breakers (yes young just broke TBs prepping to race) are ridden out in the forestry.

90% were pretty darn good to take out after about a week.
 
#16 ·
Every single Thoroughbred I have owned I have trail ridden and taken through town and I've owned a fair few, currently I have 3.

Varying from straight off the track to never raced, all of them were also ridden through town regularly, with no drama.

Sometimes you just gotta ride em, you can do as much groundwork and bombproofing as you like but its not the same as just getting them out there.

I also worked for a Thoroughbred Stud and all the breakers (yes young just broke TBs prepping to race) are ridden out in the forestry.

90% were pretty darn good to take out after about a week.

Nice story, but that has not been my experience in the three years we boarded and took lessons at a TB farm. The owner was a twice accredited trainer and instructor, and only two of the TBs there during the time I was there were ever appropriate for a beginner or intermediate rider to take out on the trails.

Sure, most were ABLE to go out on the trails, but only with advanced riders .... for the regular casual rider, nope.

OF the two who were beginner appropriate trail horses, one had once been a DC Park Police horse, so she had extensive training.

I am not trying to turn the OP off on buying this horse, but to paint a picture of butterflies and roses like the poster above, isn't doing her a favor either.

she needs to be prepared for the possibility that this 7 yr. old TB is going to take extensive....let me say it again, extensive, training to make a good, safe, beginner/intermediate rider friendly trail horse.

Painting TBs as docile, safe trail horses in one week is as ridiculous as saying NO tb WILL EVER made a good trail horse.
 
#17 ·
I own one cribber, have had her for over 20 years. Though I love her to pieces, I will never own another that cribs. We've tried every collar on the market and none have worked for her. She's hell on fence posts, stalls if she has to be in, she requires more in the way of teeth maintenance and now that she is getting older it also adds to her being a bit of a hard keeper through the winters.

It's all a personal preference thing and how much you can tolerate. If I was in the market for another, I'd certainly pass on a cribber as there are many quality horses out there with no vices.
 
#18 ·
I have a wood chewer, not a cribber and i was wondering....since cribbers are not actually chewing on the wood, how is it that they cause so much damage?


There were two cribbers at the barn we used to board at, one an OTTB and one was a QH.....and despite anything the owners did, they could not stop them from cribbing. Even those miracle collars didn't help.....
 
#20 ·
Hmmm....I think I'd still choose a cribber over a wood chewer.


The damage our boy has done to the side of the barn wall is incredible. The owners seem to not mind and accept it as something horses sometimes do....but it really really upsets us that our horse is destroying someone's property. :-(
 
#21 ·
So I went and saw the horse today and he was really lovely. We went for a road ride and he was very good, lots of cars going past and rode through a construction site with big machinery going and he wasnt phased at all. He did plod a bit and got left behind a little even though the two young girls that came along were on small ponies. He wasnt fussed about being left behind but was responsive and would trot to catch up when asked to. Only got startled once when the horse in front got a fright from something flapping on the side of the road but it was a very small reaction. Both of the young girls have ridden him before and their riding level was probably the same as mine if not a bit less given their age. I got to see him being loaded onto a float and he pretty much loaded himself which was great. I also got to see him wind sucking when put into a paddock while waiting for the float to be brought around. He did it a couple of times on a post then wandered off and started grazing. She has other people coming to see him but has offered to take me on another ride where we can go through farmland and onto the beach, we only walked and trotted today because the girls were both on horses they havent ridden before and there werent any good places to have a canter along the road side. I am definitely keen to see him again as I felt really comfortable on him and very safe. I know you shouldnt rush into buying a horse but it is hard when you like them and know that other people have been viewing the horse - I have missed out on horses in the past when someone else has come to see them after me and brought them after one viewing. Will try and post a pic of me on him.
 

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#23 ·
Thanks Duren
Yes I do feel rather confused now that I have seen him and quite liked him. I have looked at so many horses over the last year and it seems like just my luck that the one I felt really comfortable on has a vice like that. Although if he didnt he would probably be out of my price range! I guess now I have to decide if its something I can live with.
 
#24 ·
Another vote for owned one and never will again. And as for the Miracle Collar-did little to nothing, except make his pass out twice and hurt himself, and yes, it was on right. Just the goofy way he stretched. I also don't like the way it makes their throatlatch thicker for muscle use.
I am with SMROBS, and also agree that TB's are higher maintenance than many others. Some bloodlines even more so. For example, the Northen Dancer line has a rep for bad feet. After owning one, I found that out. In my case, it surely was true. Worst feet ever, but mine also was awesome and very quiet on the trails.....only really reacted when a phone rang, and in the show ring went faster and faster-couldn;t figure out why he had to keep passing the same horses......:) but sweet and good as they come.
 
#25 ·
Wow he looks like a clone of my horse.
It sounds as if your horse market is pretty healthy there, where I am you could buy that horse daily for that price, without the cribbing issue.

If you are keeping the horse on your own property and you really like him, I say go for it. If you are boarding, I would likely pass. Many boarding barns won't take cribbers.

Beausant, I have owned quite a few TBs and the majority are the quiet kind. I think it's a myth that they are all hot and crazy - sure some can be, but that's not the majority.
 
#26 · (Edited)
alex, i didn't mean a TB needs to be "hot and crazy" to NOT make a good trail horse....our ottb isn't hot or crazy, but he still isn't making a good trail horse. The reason being that he is forward...very forward....when he gets out in the woods or worse...an open field....he wants to GO not plod along while the rider gazes at the scenery. Wanting to GO, to MOVE FORWARD doesnt translate into "hot and crazy", it translates into a young horse trained his entire life to GO and MOVE FORWARD....and so he does. Teaching a horse such as this to plod along at a sedate pace will take some retraining. YOU know it. I know it....and the OP needs to know it.

And retraining 99% of horses that have spent their whole lives being conditioned to go and move forward is going to take a whole lot more than one week like the other poster said. You may find one or two that can do such an about face like that....but 99%???!!! Ummm....NOT!

The OP has to be willing to face the possibility that a 7 yr. old OTTB isn't going to make an optimum trail horse without INTENSIVE and continuing training.

And the OP also has to consider her level of riding ability.....because while our OTTB can go out on trails...he isn't a horse I personally would ride, nor would I want anyone who wasn't "advanced" to ride. If the OP isn't a skilled rider, then that is another thing for her to consider.

franknbeans and smrobs just said tbs are high maintenance...generally speaking, YES, they are!! healthwise and temperment wise.

I rest my case.
 
#27 ·
Kiwi, I understand what you are saying about not wanting someone to buy him out from under you, so you are wanting to make a quick decision.

It's really a tough call...no one wants to make a snap decision on something like this, but too much indecision may cost you the horse.

I would say, follow your heart....you know your riding abilities, and you know that TBs are oftentimes a bit more "high maintenance" than the average horse....you also know he's a cribber.... if you have a place that accepts cribbers, or your own place and you feel he is the right horse for you....then take him. But alex is right, some places won't take cribbers....so you need to have a place lined up first.

BTW, he is stunningly gorgeous. I wouldn't wait too long to decide....someone is going to snatch him up for sure!!!
 
#28 ·
He is gorgeous! He actually looks like an Arab to me! People are saying he is a TB????? Hes got that dish face like an Arab!:smile: Hard decision..it's hard to find a suitable horse....right size, right temperament, sound, trained, right price & one that you can fall in love with.
 
#29 ·
Hi Christine

Yes hes definitely a TB, he is branded and both parents were TB but he has a slight bump which you can see above the nose band that makes his face look dished! I am about to send the owner an email regarding the price tag since I figure I might as well get that on the table before going to see him again. A friend who has horses and much more experience than me suggested I dont go over $1200 since he cribs. I dont know whether she would accept this amount given that she is asking $2000, I was thinking maybe $1500? I guess I can only try and see what she comes back with.
 
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