Would Founder Show Up in Just One Leg? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 10-21-2016, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Would Founder Show Up in Just One Leg?

Pony was limping on left front leg awhile back, seemed to go away, be fine; then, after a month limping again on same front leg, soaked it, kept off it, so only got dry hay for a few days while in confinement, that was a month ago; now been back out on pasture for 5-6 hours a day, as other experts have assured me should be fine this time of year.

Just bringing them in now, she gallops in happily (so smart they know the drill), but when walking/trotting think I might be seeing a very very slight limp. (Could be my imagination, since I'm looking for it.) We're going to the vet on Nov. 1st for the pre-purchase checkup I should have had done but trusted seller on (about 4 months late, but I love this little girl no matter what), so along with blood tests, vaccinations and such, will get an x-ray of that front leg, but just wonder if anyone knows if beginnings of founder might just show up in one leg? Will keep them in the dry corral tomorrow for sure, as it won't hurt either of them to have more of a reduced feed day.
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post #2 of 12 Old 10-21-2016, 08:24 PM
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No, what you're seeing is not laminitis.

I mean it CAN happen on one leg, but that's very atypical (say the Barbaro saga-NOT naturally occurring but due to injury). While there is "subclinical" laminitis I wouldn't expect a slight regular limp in one foot here and there and everything else fine.

My guess is it may be a stone bruise or a slight abscess that won't go away. Could very well be something further up too. The vet should be able to advise best course of action whether it be x-rays or something else. Could also be something else, I know a mare off and on SLIGHTLY sore over the summer that ended up with Lyme disease.

Why are you so concerned about laminitis? I mean it's a good thing to be concerned about!! It just seems like you're very focused on that.
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post #3 of 12 Old 10-22-2016, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Probably worried too much about founder because allowed pony I brought home 15 years ago to immediately founder. Felt so bad for that little guy. I'd had many ponies as a kid in California and never ever had a one founder (Shetlands, Welsh, misc), didn't even know what it was to tell the truth, but must have been due to much drier grass or more animals on pasture way back then. Now have the farrier tell me that best to have horses on dry lot all the time, as too much risk of Equine Metabolic Syndrome, Cushings, whatever, kind of makes me feel like I'm going crazy with trying to figure out how to manage both the horses and the llamas so all can get shelter as rain poured down yesterday. We re-arranged the shelters and horses managed to let themselves out and eat on the pasture all night ... just kind of driving me crazy, so thanks again for your reassurance and I'll take a deep breath!
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post #4 of 12 Old 10-22-2016, 06:58 AM
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It depends how you differentiate 'founder' from 'laminitis'. If you mean the systemic, metabolic stress that causes inflammation to laminae, agree with Yogi, that's very unlikely(not impossible, but...) in one foot. If you mean mechanical changes, such as 'rotated' or 'low' P3 then yes, absolutely that can happen in just one foot.

I'm not sure that Yogi was meaning to 'reassure' you as such, to cause you to 'relax your guard', but asking why you're so focussed on founder, when it could be a range of things. Seem to recall we went over that when the horse was significantly lame some weeks back?? At any rate, if she is only very slightly lame, not obviously suffering and not in work ATM, I'd probably just wait & have her checked out as planned in Nov. And in the meantime, do your homework on factors of hoof health & management. And as for reduced grazing, letting them out to graze over night is *generally* a good time to do it, re the sugars in the grass.
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Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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post #5 of 12 Old 10-22-2016, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks! It's probably just that I'm reading so much now about possible problems that am getting overly worried about what is needed to keep horses well. As said, don't remember the family having to worry at all about pasture when I was a kid in CA, so am concerned that things here in WA, even on the dry side and perhaps because this is irrigated pasture, are so different that I need to learn as much as possible. Was thinking it could be that the $10 ponies I had as a kid were a lot tougher than this fancier pony I have now, but then remembering that the Shetland who foundered was a cheap pony at $500 (about right with inflation over 45 years????), so that would more indicate that it's the different pasture. :) Will see the vet and try not obsess about it again....
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post #6 of 12 Old 10-22-2016, 03:24 PM
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Is it possible that the pony has an abscess in that hoof?

Just winging it is not a plan
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post #7 of 12 Old 10-22-2016, 04:10 PM
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it is also possible, for a horse to founder more in one front foot,then the other, thus appear to be favoring only one foot
Smilie foundered more in her left front then her right, thus, at times, she can appear to be favoring that foot only, but were you to block that foot, soreness could show up in the other foot
Certainly not suggesting your horse had laminitis, that progressed to founder , with one foot having more rotation then the other, without further info
I also wonder why laminitis concerns you so much-does the hrose have the other risk factors symptoms,, like some abnormal fat deposits, hard cresty neck, ect?
Could very likely be an abcess, some arthritic changes, so you need a differential diagnosis
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post #8 of 12 Old 10-22-2016, 07:38 PM
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My thought is abscess or arthritis... maybe calcification. My horse is sound in a appearance at the canter but off at the trot when his navicular is bothering him

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post #9 of 12 Old 10-23-2016, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Good to have these additional ideas, as vet can help me then sort things out when we see on Nov. 1st (pony will be loaded in the trailer to take to first 4H meeting, so vet visit at same time seems good idea, will let all know how both those things go!) Possible ankle problem (very very slight, if any limp now) doesn't seem to be an abcess, as farrier found my little mule had an abscess when she first came to me, so I know what that looks like (maybe one reason mule was so bad with back feet handling, he said) and we just had a farrier visit for both where he said pony's feet looked good. He's also the one who kind of got me all scared about having possible founder, saying best to take totally off the pasture as could cause Equine Metabolic Syndrome and Cushings-type disease. Think after hearing others' thoughts and reading a lot more about those conditions, that maybe he was going too much on myths instead of real hard knowledge about those diseases.

Yes, Smilie, she does have fat deposits on her hips, which is in a separate post about Dry Lot vs Pasture. That post probably one reason some of the others have wondered why I'm so fixated on possible founder, as it was result of farrier telling me those odd things about EMS (EMD?) and Cushings. I'm a bit on information overload, re-arranging shelters so llamas have some stress, unexpected financial panic and pasture management anxiety with this new hobby!

Last edited by LlamaPacker; 10-23-2016 at 11:50 AM.
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post #10 of 12 Old 10-23-2016, 10:33 PM
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Ditto to Smilie - surprised at myself for forgetting to point that out, that she could well be bilaterally lame, but worse on one, so you're not recognising the better one. Of course, not at all saying that's the case, but always worth considering.

I'm also assuming it's the same foot the pony was lame on a month or few back? can't remember details, but didn't we think that was likely a stone bruise/abscess? Did we have hoof pics? If not, they would be helpful.

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Originally Posted by LlamaPacker View Post
doesn't seem to be an abcess, as farrier found my little mule had an abscess when she first came to me, so I know what that looks like
Abscesses & bruising can manifest in many ways. Not infrequently I go to a client's horse & point out an abscess hole/crack that's been & gone & they say 'can't be - he wasn't even lame!' Sometimes there's nothing to see. Sometimes no obvious heat or inflammation. Sometimes a fat, hot leg & severely lame... Again, not saying it is that, but just because you can't see something obvious... If it is the same foot, been chronic 'offness' for that long, I would be thinking it's not just an abscess though.

Quote:
Think after hearing others' thoughts and reading a lot more about those conditions, that maybe he was going too much on myths instead of real hard knowledge about those diseases.
...Or maybe has similar experience to me, in knowing how common it is & how bad it can get... that he's seeing fat horses & good grass & wanting you to take 'preventative action' so you don't have to go through that with them, along with a lot more hassle. Far better/easier to avoid than treat. I'd certainly advise to do your homework & take those concerns seriously too.

Some info I've found helpful; [COLOR=Lime][B]www.horseforum.com/horse-health/hoof-lameness-info-horse-owners-89836/
For taking critique pics; [COLOR=Lime][B]https://www.horseforum.com/members/41...res-128437.jpg
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