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Would these marks be caused by a chain?

4K views 20 replies 13 participants last post by  BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 
#1 ·
So Hawk has always had scar tissue on his nose that doesn’t grow hair where his nose and would sit. This is normal for him and it’s just black skin where there normally would be hair.

Tonight I found him in his stall with small scrapes on the scar. I think it was caused by a chain shank. He has no other marks on his face aside from these fresh ones right over the bridge of his nose where his halter would sit. The marks were not there yesterday. And he was definitely weary of me putting on and taking off a halter tonight. No one was at the barn for me to ask either. Barn manager is very absentee, and doesn’t answer texts or calls often.

He’s not turned out with a halter on, and I found no splinters or anything stuck to the noseband that would’ve cut him while being led in or out. I feel like if he did this scratching on a fence post or something he would’ve scraped his entire face and not a small horizontal stripe where his scar is.

He can be a bit of a handful at times being led, but is not dangerous and the barn staff has not reached out to me about any issues. However the manager has said to me in the past that he “can be very naughty, but it’s no big deal.” I have nothing against discipline, but he is normally not handled with a chain, and I feel like I should’ve been informed if one was necessary. Especially if he’s been bad enough that someone needed to go out of their way to find one.

Over the summer I did remove the stud shank from his stall door because I suspected it might’ve been getting misused. I found him in his paddock with similar marks on his face. I had left one on his door previously for when the farrier came to the barn. But for day to day handling it wasn’t necessary. I do have an issue with how one of the barn staff handles horses, she is rather rough and loud with them for minor infractions.

I’m attaching pictures for you guys to review. Unfortunately they are not the best quality. Do you think this might’ve been caused by someone yanking on a chain shank? Or am I just overthinking this?

Skin Fur Snout Goats Neck


Skin Close-up Fur Snout Textile


Fur Ear Close-up Fur clothing emperor moths
 
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#3 ·
I’d really like to believe it wasn’t a chain, but I can’t wrap my mind around anything else that could’ve caused this. There’s no wire or tape in his turnout, it’s only wood. Nothing has really changed in the 3 years he’s been boarded there, so there shouldn’t be any new hazards to cut himself on. Something would’ve had to have conformed to his face similar to a halter or bridle IMO since it wraps around the bridge of his nose.

I’m also not going to go run over there accusing the barn staff, but I will ask if there’s been any issues lately with his behavior and go from there. They absolutely deserve to be safe and have permission to discipline him, but breaking skin seems too much.

Another boarder had similar issues with her horse (who was difficult) around the same time hawk did last summer. Taking the chain leads off the halters and taking with barn staff seemed to end the issue, which leads me to believe that it’s the same problem this time. I’m hoping this is not the case and am open to ideas what else this could be so I can go remove the hazard.
 
#4 ·
It could be a chain or it could be a rub on the fence rail or something. The rest of his nose would have hair for padding and not be affected. Probably the best thing for preventing someone feeling the need to use a chain on him would be some training for him so he isn't even a little bit naughty.
 
#5 ·
It's hard to tell from the pics, because they're so close up it's hard to tell perspective. BUT, from looking at the locations of the scuffs and being able to clearly see where his halter rested on his nose, those scuffs seem to be too high to have been caused by a chain. If someone DID use a chain that high, then they don't know what they're doing with it and I would have an issue with that. Based solely on location, I would suspect he found something to scuff his face on though rather than thinking it was a chain shank.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
It does seem very high up... I'd be concerned as well. My mare had two marks above her eyes and I was really confused by the symmetry. She apparently decided to stick her head beyond the fence line and between barbed wire behind it on the opposite side (big horse, further reach than the ponies). I really wouldn't put off someone used gear incorrectly as well though. Mines a big girl and in the beginning they used a headcollar with an extra loop, not a chain... just realised IDK the name of this... but anyway she definitely rubbed but went away once they soon realised she is was well behaved. It could also just be that they used it once and a single abrasion made him itch it like mad. It's all just speculation but I agree on maybe even asking to observe the turnout. Even observe them putting on the headcollar etc... watching how other people handle behaviour is more insightful to their opinion than asking for the truth.
 
#8 ·
They do not look like chain marks to me....
That said, if it has been mentioned by staff to you that the horse is ... a handful, well, then to me...it is their right to handle your horse getting from point A to B safely, quickly and efficiently as possible.
If that means he gets a chain so they have control, so be it.
Because you removed your chain from his stall does not mean chain shanks are not easily available when needed.
The fact your horse needs a chain shank for the farrier also speaks volumes to me. :neutral:

I worked in the barns....a chain is another tool when used properly, not abusive.
It can save the handler from a real ordeal reminding a horse to keep their manners in check while in their care.
What you as the owner put up with is one thing. What the barn workers will or need to put up with from, how many horses are on property{?} is something totally different.
You probably would say I was rough and loud, but my tone of voice and a determined mannerism in working around the horse also dictated to them I was in charge, not them.
Not loud or rough but "authoritative", absolutely.
Good, professional handlers and workers don't use undue force or actions not appropriate on the animals in their charge...
Workers though will not tolerate, allow a horse to not be respectful for their safety and that then means your horses safety while under their care, they can't..
But a chain...no, looks more to me he rubbed it against something like a bucket, fence rail, a tree, even their own leg if they use the chestnut for a scratching post.
:runninghorse2:...
 
#9 ·
I missed the part where you said he was difficult for the farrier. Perhaps you could try the Duct Tape Trick on him . . . .






also, while 'shanking ' a horse is not a great training action, it can work when leading , and is just about as affective in a rope halter as in a chained halter.
 
#10 ·
#12 ·
It's hard to speculate, unfortunately. I agree that It may be a bit high to be a chain, yet it is also possible.

Although, since you already know your horse has a tendency to be hard to handle, I would encourage you to work on his groundwork and handling as well, so that you can try and minimize events in which a chain would be warranted. I'm sure the workers and barn manager/ owner would be very thankful if you did. A horse with poor ground manners (not saying this is necessarily your case) can be quite frustrating to deal with if it comes down to the worker's safety, especially If it is something that could otherwise be avoided. Unfortunately, in most cases, this issue won't be addressed unless you take it upon yourself to do something.

I've also seen horses with good ground manners become hard to handle with otherwise poor horsemanship from workers, which unfortunately does also happen. One of my horses with the BEST manners (could literally lead him at liberty if you wanted to) turned into an absolute terror at one barn. Interestingly enough, he was great with me, but clearly disrespected the workers. Revisiting ground manners helped a little, but not entirely. For that scenario, I requested that the barn lead him to and from the field in a rope halter. I have a preference for a good rope halter over a chain, mainly because I feel they have a clearer pressure-release system than chains.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the input everyone! I’m glad most people don’t think it was a chain. He has no slow feeders or mangers to scrape his face on. And I doubt he was sticking his head through the fence but I suppose it’s possible.

He has excellent ground manners 99% of the time and is usually asleep for the farrier. I kept the chain on his door in case I needed to swap it out halfway through the appointment, but it’s not often needed.

He is very very fixated on what the other horses are doing, so if another horse is being ridden in the arena and he can see them he while being shod he can be difficult, he would rather keep his eyes on the other horse than pay attention to the handler. The same goes for turnout, if another horse is running he wants to run too.

He also feeds off his handler a lot, so with some of the barn staff being inexperienced and nervous with a dead quiet horse, he is worse with them.

It’s tough to work on groundwork when I need someone else at the barn messing with another horse to actually get bad behavior from him. I’m usually here alone, and as long as all the other horses are relaxing in their stalls or turnouts he’s dead quiet, its really only other horses coming and going that triggers bad behavior.

I’m not at all opposed to using a chain on my horse when needed, but if it’s being used to the point of taking off skin I’m concerned.

I’ll look into swapping his normal halter for a rope one, my only concern is sometimes the staff forgets to remove halters during turnout. Which is less than ideal.
 
#14 ·
If you change to a rope halter, you can put on a leadline that is NOT attached with a metal snap. it is attached with a loop. There is no metal hardware, and it not designed to be attached and removed, but rather the two are left together all the time. That way, they HAVE to take both off when putting your horse in turn out.


Also, in the case of a rope halter with heavy metal attaching hardware, if you do need to snap the line to get his attention when he starts to lose it, the metal hardware can really bang hard into his lower jaw. It will make him fear the halter/rope.
 
#15 ·
Wouldn't this just make it possible that they leave the halter and the lead on? Depends how long the lead is I guess, but I've known people who would be that lazy and irresponsible.
 
#16 ·
I too don't think it looks like a chain wound. I too am one for, if your horse is 'a bit naughty' & 'needs a chain for the farrier', then that means he needs better training, and in the meantime, if you must have others handling him, while I don't agree with chains across noses & the likes, whoever must handle him needs to feel safe & in control, which may mean a chain - it's not their responsibility to train your horse to have better 'manners', or put themselves in danger because they must handle him without appropriate control measures.
 
#17 ·
I can see your point about the halter being left on, especially if the handlers are inexperienced. I know that there is an option for a hybrid rope halter with a buckle. I've never personally used one, but I've seen someone else use one on a energetic warmblood and the barn owner said it worked very well. They had the leather one (from the company in the first link) and It was also gorgeous in person. You could also put on a leather breakaway with this option as well. Maybe that is an option?

Halter:

https://shop.horseeducation.com/collections/hybrid-halter/products/economy-hybrid-halter

https://www.pleasantridge.ca/index.php/halters-leads/rope-halters/mustang-rope-halter-10.html

Leather Breakaway attachment:

https://greenhawk.com/wdItemDesc.asp?strilhID=web&strmdNumber=HAD4966&stricSKU=HAD4966
 
#19 ·
Some use figure 8 halters on babies that have grab straps. I could see it being done on a mature horse that was difficult to catch but not with a full lead. I can say my in laws are that crlazy and had been caught doing that. It wasn't because they were difficult to catch either.
 
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