Bought a horse and told had transfer but didn't - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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Bought a horse and told had transfer but didn't

I recently bought an AQHA mare from a girl who bought this mare from an auction and said she had her transfer papers and registration certificate at her old house and would get it to me the next day, she bought the mare in Nov 2019 and I bought the mare Jan 2020. She never transferred her to her name. I got the registration Certificate the next but not the transfer paper claiming she forgot to grab it. She said she would mail it to me so I agreed. Fast forward 4 weeks still no transfer paper and I researched online the auction she bought from and was able to see my mare being auctioned WITHOUT a transfer! I confronted the girl about it and she said she had mailed me the transfer already so I thought maybe she had gotten in contact with the registered owner and gotten a transfer signed. Well 2 more weeks passed and still no transfer. I was able to find contact info of the registered owner and talk to her but now she wont sign a transfer form unless I pay her $500. She also mentioned that the girl I bought her from knew this and had agreed to the transfer fee and never heard from her again. The registered owner said I could sue the girl I bought the mare from for lying about the transfer paperwork. At this point I don't have the money to pay 500 to get her transferred to me. What can I do?
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post #2 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 11:55 AM
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How much of what was said has a document trail? For example, is there any mention of the registration side of the sale business in the horseís for sale ad (assuming that is how you found about the horse to start with)? I must confess to being under informed about the intricacies of the registration process but if the horse was offered as purebred and registrable at that time you may have a good argument for recouping the $500 from the person you bought from. Also, I donít suppose there would have been a condition mentioned in the bill of sale that stipulated the person would provide you with the appropriate paperwork for registration?

I think that, from a legal perspective, you will need to actually incur the expense before you can pursue a cost recovery case through small claims court (again, assuming there is one where you are). That means youíll have to pay the $500 and then go after the person to be reimbursed for the expense. Alternatively, itís a talk with a lawyer about alternatives to get you where you want to be and that may be a cost equal to or greater than the $500. If these avenues canít be done then all thatís left is to keep on the person until she agrees to reduce the purchase price by $500 or agrees to give you the $500 in cash - be persistent and firm here but not hostile or she may call the police and try to have charges of harassment/threats brought against you! Oh, finally carefully note and document everything you are doing about this for future reference.

Good luck.
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Last edited by Chevaux; 02-22-2020 at 12:02 PM.
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post #3 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 02:50 PM
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If I remember correctly as it has been awhile there is only a $20 fee to transfer. I want to say they waived multiple fees but you still have to have signatures of the last owner on record and every owner after that point. IME you can skip the middle if the last owner of record will fill out new transfer papers as there can be no corrections.

As for the $500. The last owner probably sold her at a reduced rate from what she was asking if no papers went with her. Again in my experience they figure if you don't pay their asking price you shouldn't be entitled to making money off the mare later (breeding). Not fair of that owner as you get what you accept and it isn't fair to the new owner if they intended to campaign her and put that time and money investment in. Can't show AQHA without the papers. AQHA can't force her to transfer but if you have copies of the owner you bought froms bill of sale, the auction records (ad and conditions for sale) and your bill of sale perhaps enough pressure can be placed on them to sign. If the ad clearly stated one price for with papers and one without then if you want them you have to abide by the original sale agreement and either you pay it or you sue her for it so you can pay it.

So if I understand this girl you bought from bought a registered horse knowing there would be no transfer. Agreed to pay the last owner of record $500 for her signature essentially then decided for whatever reason it was just easier to con a new owner and recoup her money. Probably because the horse was not a high dollar horse and she thought she could get the transfer papers easily then found out she couldn't so she resells and lies about the transfer to make a sale.

This would be a buyer beware. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. What are or were your plans for the mare?

At least you know her breeding. That is more than some people get in these deals.

Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.

Last edited by QtrBel; 02-22-2020 at 02:56 PM.
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post #4 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QtrBel View Post
If I remember correctly as it has been awhile there is only a $20 fee to transfer. I want to say they waived multiple fees but you still have to have signatures of the last owner on record and every owner after that point. IME you can skip the middle if the last owner of record will fill out new transfer papers as there can be no corrections.

As for the $500. The last owner probably sold her at a reduced rate from what she was asking if no papers went with her. Again in my experience they figure if you don't pay their asking price you shouldn't be entitled to making money off the mare later (breeding). Not fair of that owner as you get what you accept and it isn't fair to the new owner if they intended to campaign her and put that time and money investment in. Can't show AQHA without the papers. AQHA can't force her to transfer but if you have copies of the owner you bought froms bill of sale, the auction records (ad and conditions for sale) and your bill of sale perhaps enough pressure can be placed on them to sign. If the ad clearly stated one price for with papers and one without then if you want them you have to abide by the original sale agreement and either you pay it or you sue her for it so you can pay it.

So if I understand this girl you bought from bought a registered horse knowing there would be no transfer. Agreed to pay the last owner of record $500 for her signature essentially then decided for whatever reason it was just easier to con a new owner and recoup her money. Probably because the horse was not a high dollar horse and she thought she could get the transfer papers easily then found out she couldn't so she resells and lies about the transfer to make a sale.

This would be a buyer beware. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. What are or were your plans for the mare?

At least you know her breeding. That is more than some people get in these deals.


I bought her for barrel racing and maybe breeding her in the future. She is a very well bred mare and would make a great broodmare but that's not why I got her. The girl I bought her from got her at auction for 400 ( I know that now and I actually have the auction video of when she was sold) and I paid her 2500 for her. I feel like the girl should've paid the 500 when she sold her to me since she made a good profit from it 😔
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post #5 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 06:00 PM
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IMO the cost difference is a good indicator that she knew she wasn't getting papers at that price.


Might consider writing a letter to the seller formally requesting the transfer papers by registered mail. Also mention that conversation with the prior owner demanding $500 for transfer papers and requesting the seller pay the money and obtain the transfer papers.


At the bottom, can put c.c. to your attorney. Make sure you keep a copy for yourself. You might be able to take this to small claims court on your own.
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post #6 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 06:04 PM
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BTW, it should not be legal to charge more for a transfer of papers. That is so unfair to the horse. Papers should follow the animal wherever. In Europe they have some sort of passport that ALL horses must have. It seems to be a better system.
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post #7 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 06:33 PM
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That is why when I sell I do the transfer. Well two reasons. I don't want the liability of having a horse that is not mine in my name and two for $20 I know the transfer is done.

She made $2100 from that sale. I think she knew what she was doing. I'd take her to court for that $500.
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Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.
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post #8 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 07:32 PM
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Will the association transfer the papers if you pay for the two transfers? You are in possession of the papers and the horse. Seems like they would want horses to stay registered...

Also check with the auction house, they might have a transfer of ownership from the sale.

Does the bill of sale count?

Does the transfer paper have to be present? Where does one get a transfer paper from?

Seems like this should all be done online like the rest of life...
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post #9 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 07:38 PM
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I don't think there's any way to force her to sign papers over, in court or other wise. I'd suggest she doesn't have any papers on this horse, or... the papers she claimed to have for it belong to another horse and she used it as bait to make more money.

Bottom line is, OP is probably up a creek without a paddle. AQHA isn't going to help her and I don't think there's a law in state in the US to force it. A bill of sale won't help either, IMO.

Never pay for a horse or accept delivery of it unless you are handed the signed papers right there and then - just like buying a car.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #10 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
I don't think there's any way to force her to sign papers over, in court or other wise. I'd suggest she doesn't have any papers on this horse, or... the papers she claimed to have for it belong to another horse and she used it as bait to make more money.

Bottom line is, OP is probably up a creek without a paddle. AQHA isn't going to help her and I don't think there's a law in state in the US to force it. A bill of sale won't help either, IMO.

Never pay for a horse or accept delivery of it unless you are handed the signed papers right there and then - just like buying a car.
I think she has the registration papers, but not the transfer certificate.
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