Bought a horse and told had transfer but didn't - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaAnne View Post
I think she has the registration papers, but not the transfer certificate.
If the papers are signed by her, those are all she needs. It's just like a car title... last owner signs and dates them on the back, new owner signs them and sends them in, pay the required fees. That's all Daughter had to do with Red IIRC, and that's for sure all I had to do with AJ.

If the papers aren't signed? The problem remains.

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post #12 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 07:55 PM
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Let me add: I'm double checking my information, because I'm working off memory here and my CRS is acting up lately. LOL

I could be wrong - but I KNOW with AJ it was all on her registration paper. Granted she's APHA, but Red's AQHA papers were similar... I think... Double checking.

I may need some salt with this crow I may be about eat.

Regardless... I still think OP is out of luck on this one, and that sucks. If it's not against the law to withhold the transfer... and I don't think it is... it should be. The only legal angle I can think of is misrepresentation/fraud... maybe. But I still don't know that a court of law would do much of anything, and the legal fees might be more than the horse is worth.

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post #13 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 08:40 PM
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Where's that crow at?

AQHA doesn't put the transfer on the back of the registration papers any more. The problem remains though - if the last person won't sign a piece of paper, OP is still SOL and I don't think a 2500.00 horse would be worth the attorney fees and court costs to try to make her sign them... and I don't even know if a civil court would entertain a case like that...

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #14 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 09:18 PM
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The only hope is to contact AQHA, let them know exactly what has transpired and see if possession of the horse & her registration papers, and please please tell me you got a bill of sale from the girl for that $2500, and see if they have a hardship way to register the horse. They may have a way, I know AHA, will do it if you provide either a judge's order granting you ownership of the horse or an attorney's affidavit that says you are the owner in possession of the horse (frequently used for wonky paper deals where the original owner renigs on signing transfer) but has sold you the horse and accepted money for the the horse.

Just FYI for those who deal with APHA or other registries where the transfer report is on the registration certificate, AQHA and Pintos must have a Transfer Report filled out and signed. Without it, you have nothing.

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post #15 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 09:33 PM
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Yep. Having now talked to some AQHA owners and breeders, @Dreamcatcher Arabians is correct.

That said, I am told if you will contact AQHA and explain what's going on, they can investigate and eventually, hopefully, can get the papers into your name. If you have any texts from either of these people, you need to screen shot them and provide them to AQHA as part of the investigation... and then hope and pray.

A bill of sale will also be helpful, and perhaps necessary, if I understand correctly.

Can someone pass me the salt? I have a crow roasting on an open fire to eat here in a second....
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post #16 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher Arabians View Post
The only hope is to contact AQHA, let them know exactly what has transpired and see if possession of the horse & her registration papers, and please please tell me you got a bill of sale from the girl for that $2500, and see if they have a hardship way to register the horse. They may have a way, I know AHA, will do it if you provide either a judge's order granting you ownership of the horse or an attorney's affidavit that says you are the owner in possession of the horse (frequently used for wonky paper deals where the original owner renigs on signing transfer) but has sold you the horse and accepted money for the the horse.

Just FYI for those who deal with APHA or other registries where the transfer report is on the registration certificate, AQHA and Pintos must have a Transfer Report filled out and signed. Without it, you have nothing.
Ok, trying to understand here. Even if you have the registration papers, and a bill of sale, and are willing to pay the transfer fee, the breed registration won't transfer ownership? Why not???

That leaves total control to the seller, and leaves the poor buyer, who in good faith paid for a horse, got a bill of sale, and has the papers in their hand with useless papers.

Why would the breed registries not want to bring in new people with registered horses??

No wonder so many people never get their horses registered. They are most likely afraid to send in the actual papers...
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post #17 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaAnne View Post
Ok, trying to understand here. Even if you have the registration papers, and a bill of sale, and are willing to pay the transfer fee, the breed registration won't transfer ownership? Why not???

That leaves total control to the seller, and leaves the poor buyer, who in good faith paid for a horse, got a bill of sale, and has the papers in their hand with useless papers.

Why would the breed registries not want to bring in new people with registered horses??

No wonder so many people never get their horses registered. They are most likely afraid to send in the actual papers...
#1. Because they feel that the papers belong to the owner, not to the horse. And as I said above, the registry MAY have a way to get it done, don't know for sure. She needs to call AQHA. BTW, I don't agree with what either seller is doing but it's not that unusual.

#2. Fear of liability if they transferred to someone who is NOT a legal owner.

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post #18 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenix88 View Post
I recently bought an AQHA mare from a girl who bought this mare from an auction and said she had her transfer papers and registration certificate at her old house and would get it to me the next day,
I have only bought a few horses from auction but every time the auction house was the one who had papers if the horse was selling with papers. Owners had to turn them in as part of the paperwork. Perhaps other auction places function differently, but that would have been a big red flag for me right off the bat.

NEVER give anyone money for a registered horse until you see the papers in their hand. Never. Otherwise things like this happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix88 View Post
she bought the mare in Nov 2019 and I bought the mare Jan 2020. She never transferred her to her name. I got the registration Certificate the next but not the transfer paper claiming she forgot to grab it. She said she would mail it to me so I agreed. Fast forward 4 weeks still no transfer paper and I researched online the auction she bought from and was able to see my mare being auctioned WITHOUT a transfer! I confronted the girl about it and she said she had mailed me the transfer already so I thought maybe she had gotten in contact with the registered owner and gotten a transfer signed. Well 2 more weeks passed and still no transfer. I was able to find contact info of the registered owner and talk to her but now she wont sign a transfer form unless I pay her $500.
$500?? You've got to be kidding me.

While it is much easier to get a horse into your name with AQHA, you do NOT need a bill of sale and you do NOT need a signed transfer report. But, you will need TIME. Call AQHA and tell them what happened.

I know this because I went through this. It took almost a year until AQHA granted me the papers in my name. Found out I actually didn't even need a bill of sale .... when I asked for it back from AQHA and they told me they had destroyed it because so much time had passed. That kind of ticked me off because it was the original (even though I had a copy), and then she told me they don't even need it. I had my horse's papers, but technically no transfer report because he had never had the breeder's name taken off and he had changed hands a few times. And the person I bought him from pretty much refused to sign them. AQHA still took care of it, even though it took a LONG time. They waited 90 days to hear from each buyer they could track down, that he had changed hands throughout his life.

She's trying to weasel more money out of you. Don't listen to her.

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Last edited by boots; 02-26-2020 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Crude language
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post #19 of 30 Old 02-22-2020, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Excuse my french, but tell her to eat a fat one.
$500?? You've got to be kidding me.

While it is much easier to get a horse into your name with AQHA, you do NOT need a bill of sale and you do NOT need a signed transfer report. But, you will need TIME. Call AQHA and tell them what happened.

I know this because I went through this. It took almost a year until AQHA granted me the papers in my name. Found out I actually didn't even need a bill of sale .... when I asked for it back from AQHA and they told me they had destroyed it because so much time had passed. That kind of tickeded me off because it was the original (even though I had a copy), and then she told me they don't even need it. I had my horse's papers, but technically no transfer report because he had never had the breeder's name taken off and he had changed hands a few times. And the person I bought him from pretty much refused to sign them. AQHA still took care of it, even though it took a LONG time. They waited 90 days to hear from each buyer they could track down, that he had changed hands throughout his life.

She's trying to weasel more money out of you. Don't listen to her.[/QU


Thank you, this gives me hope. I will contact AQHA on Monday. If it takes a year, I'm willing to wait. The registered owner won't sign it over because she claims she doesn't want the horse being passed on from person to person and she also stated she went through a divorce and has a lot of kids her ex isn't paying child support for, she really is trying to weasel more money out of me.
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Last edited by QtrBel; 02-23-2020 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Language in quote
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post #20 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 07:20 AM
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We don't know why the original owner put the horse through the sale. The horse sold for $400. The auction house had the registration certificate on her. Proof the horse is who she is can be done by DNA if there is any question which if the AQHA offers to loosen their rules it will be with DNA and all of the relevant information (text records -screen shots, bills of sale, ad in auction listing). They won't just transfer as DA said because of liability. They have to have a lock tight trail for proof to register under the new owner and they provide that with the transfer paper. All this other is not the same but with enough proof they may make the transfer. That is the good thing about the young horses there will be a way to prove the papers belong with that particular horse. There are no laws that say the papers have to go with the horse.



Why someone would not want that is beyond me. Selfish. Surely isn't greed as they can't make anything off the horse or perhaps if the horse makes it big on an alternate circuit where no papers are needed they feel they can go back and cash in. Who knows. Maybe they are short a few brain cells. Second seller purchased horse knowing the bloodlines and knowing the market. Which brings me back to if the lines are that good why was the up for sale for $400? Are the dam and sire AQHA rock stars? I doubt the horse itself has a proven track record or she would not have been in the sale nor gone for that low $$.


That seller kept the horse 2 months and has it up for sale says she had a good idea that if she bought the mare she could sell for much higher. Perhaps she planned on paying the $500 perhaps not but I think the horse was at the sale for a reason, the new owner figured out pretty quick why and is cashing in on the bloodlines because she can't cash in on the horse.


This from the original is just bull. "The registered owner won't sign it over because she claims she doesn't want the horse being passed on from person to person." Well no papers won't guarantee that.



This makes more sense especially if they were ordered to sell all of their assets, "she also stated she went through a divorce and has a lot of kids her ex isn't paying child support for, she really is trying to weasel more money out of me." She may well be in a financial spot she didn't think she would find herself in. A little cash can go a long way to feeding her kids or paying that months bills. Sad situation. She isn't going to retain her old lifestyle on $500 dollars though. If she is talented then I'd be surprised if you couldn't compete on the local level and let her earn her way into recognized events that are not reliant on papers to compete. Yes, it knocks you out of AQHA events but it does not stop her from meeting her potential if you have the talent to bring it out of her and she has the ability, want and drive.


By putting the transfer on the back it may make it easier to transfer a sold a horse but it also makes it harder to leave out those that failed to transfer. It took me two years to get my APHA transferred because the middle two buyers never completed the paperwork. There was a six year difference between first sell date and my purchase. I was lucky the owner or the person he sold to had never filled in his info or given the papers to the person he sold to and later took her back from. That was a mess.


While they may have done that in your case Brittany they had to reach out to those others for confirmation. Had they not have confirmed the horse going from person to person then that paperwork (bill of sale) would have been your only proof. Considering the registration in your name is official it becomes your bill of sale and you do have a copy for your records of amounts or other details that would not be on the papers. I'm seriously doubting AQHA has caught up on all the mess they are trying to catch up on and this will likely not be a priority so if they do, plan on it taking time. Lots of time.


The confirmation from the original should be easy enough unless she is really that bitter and she denies the sale. She could say her husband put the horse up against her permission. They, I hope, would contact the auction house for confirmation and record of the person that consigned the horse as well as the buyers information. Then you have that seller who could deny she sold the horse or fail to respond which may be more likely, in which case that bill of sale is your proof. One big can of worms.

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Last edited by QtrBel; 02-23-2020 at 07:35 AM.
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