Bought a horse and told had transfer but didn't - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 09:24 AM
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@QtrBel ... I missed the divorce angle. That explains so much. Could be the horse isn't hers to sell, but the ex husbands? And the horse went to auction just to spite him?

Having worked for a divorce attorney for 12 years, I can imagine a lot of scenarios where she would have physical possession of the horse to sell, but not have access to a signature on a transfer record (If it's in his name, and he refuses to sign to spite HER is one scenario as an example).

And some auction places, especially those selling a 400.00 horse, don't care about the transfer record. I did ask about this before firing it off. In Oklahoma and N Texas, if you're an auction selling 400.00 horses, you're hardly high-end and those kind of auctions do not care. For that matter, my source said even when it comes to registered cattle... things get kinda iffy because while most are branded, we do not register brands here, there's no brand inspector. Shenanigans can be had.
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post #22 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
@QtrBel ... I missed the divorce angle. That explains so much. Could be the horse isn't hers to sell, but the ex husbands? And the horse went to auction just to spite him?

Having worked for a divorce attorney for 12 years, I can imagine a lot of scenarios where she would have physical possession of the horse to sell, but not have access to a signature on a transfer record (If it's in his name, and he refuses to sign to spite HER is one scenario as an example).

She is the registered owner on the registration certificate. I also have texts saying she put the horse up for sale. Just to clarify, I do have the registration certificate.

And some auction places, especially those selling a 400.00 horse, don't care about the transfer record. I did ask about this before firing it off. In Oklahoma and N Texas, if you're an auction selling 400.00 horses, you're hardly high-end and those kind of auctions do not care. For that matter, my source said even when it comes to registered cattle... things get kinda iffy because while most are branded, we do not register brands here, there's no brand inspector. Shenanigans can be had.
She may not be a super high-end mare herself but her bloodline is Peppy San Badger, Docs Hickory and Montana Doc on her face papers, why did she only sell for 400? I don't know. I also have the auction video, I was able to find it.
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post #23 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 11:43 AM
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The horse may have been cheap at the sale barn for a few reasons. Number one is she may have been ran loose through the ring. I bought horses cheap that way.
Or she may have been ran through at the end of a cow sale, I got some cheap that way too.

The previous two owners are crappy. For selling the horse claiming she came with a signed transfer when she knew well enough she didnt have it. And the other for charging $500 to sign a transfer. Which I think is $25 and a one year AQHA membership if you dont already have one.

In the state of NV registration papers are not proof of ownership. A bill of sale and a brand inspection is what holds up in court. Not sure what state your in so that little fact is most likely irrelevant.
But I get why you want her registered in her name if you planned on breeding. Like said before, get ahold of AQHA.

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post #24 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
@QtrBel ... I missed the divorce angle. That explains so much. Could be the horse isn't hers to sell, but the ex husbands? And the horse went to auction just to spite him?

Having worked for a divorce attorney for 12 years, I can imagine a lot of scenarios where she would have physical possession of the horse to sell, but not have access to a signature on a transfer record (If it's in his name, and he refuses to sign to spite HER is one scenario as an example).

And some auction places, especially those selling a 400.00 horse, don't care about the transfer record. I did ask about this before firing it off. In Oklahoma and N Texas, if you're an auction selling 400.00 horses, you're hardly high-end and those kind of auctions do not care. For that matter, my source said even when it comes to registered cattle... things get kinda iffy because while most are branded, we do not register brands here, there's no brand inspector. Shenanigans can be had.

Sorry, still trying to figure out how to reply to certain parts. She is the registered owner, her name is on the registration certificate and I have texts messages from her saying she was the one to put the mare up for sale.
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post #25 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 11:48 AM
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Atoka, you bring up a good point as I was not thinking of the horse in HIS name...


ETA Phoenix - so she may be trying to make a quick dollar if she wasn't ordered to sell and now is trying to make sure that at least a portion of money coming in is not accountable so she doesn't have to claim it....? Who knows. Like Atoka said divorce can be ugly and many try the shenanigan route.
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post #26 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Phoenix88 View Post
Sorry, still trying to figure out how to reply to certain parts. She is the registered owner, her name is on the registration certificate and I have texts messages from her saying she was the one to put the mare up for sale.
That makes her even more despicable in my opinion. She's being petty just to be petty.

May be why she's divorced? She might just be a greedy, petty person. Obviously that's wild and spurious speculation on my part, but speaks volumes about the type of person she is.

Her argument of not wanting the horse sold and sold and sold doesn't hold water. That transfer record doesn't ensure a darn thing... and IMO, only makes it worse because technically, her registration papers are absolutely worthless now in terms of marketability. I mean, can she be transferred? Maybe? Probably? Only AQHA can answer that, but what a headache...

Without that transfer, she's a grade horse, IMO... and grade horses change hands a LOOOOTTTT. She isn't doing that horse any favors and may in fact have caused that horse a LOT of problems.

And about the low end price at an auction - she may be there through no fault of her own, may not be a thing wrong with her - people find diamonds laying on the ground in Arkansas all the time... but I question her motives for sending a horse to an auction where a GOOD registered horse would sell that cheap. People who own horses know where and when to send a horse to bring the best money. Cattle ranchers do the same. Could she have gambled and lost and now she's bitter? Maybe. We'll never know her true motivation, but this entire deal sounds sketchy as H. E. Doublehockeysticks.

I hope I'm not unfairly maligning her, but I don't think so. Her refusal to sign that and the other chick marketing that horse as a prospect with papers in hand is also dastardly.
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Last edited by AtokaGhosthorse; 02-23-2020 at 11:58 AM.
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post #27 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Phoenix88 View Post
The registered owner won't sign it over because she claims she doesn't want the horse being passed on from person to person and she also stated she went through a divorce and has a lot of kids her ex isn't paying child support for, she really is trying to weasel more money out of me.

And I would point out to her that these things have NOTHING to do with the sale of the horse.


Whether you transfer the horse into your name, will have no influence on if or when the horse is passed from person to person. That's baloney.



And the fact that she is going through a divorce matters to you why? I don't mean to be callous, but it has nothing to do with this horse. UNLESS she won't fess up that the horse is in her ex-husbands name and not hers. But still, that's something she needs to sort out -- not you. And certainly not for $500.



Again, not to be callous, but I would call her bluff. What's going on in her personal life has NOTHING to do with her providing a transfer report for you.

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post #28 of 30 Old 02-23-2020, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AtokaGhosthorse View Post
@QtrBel ... I missed the divorce angle. That explains so much. Could be the horse isn't hers to sell, but the ex husbands? And the horse went to auction just to spite him?

My ex sold my pureblood Akita when we got divorced to spite me. She sold it unregistered for cash and would never admit it, she said it ran away. My kids told me later on she sold it. Not saying that happened with this horse but given the way this shrew is being about money I'm betting something is up here in addition to her being greedy.

Like Cowchick said, registration doesn't prove ownership or transfer of ownership in most of the western us, a bill of sale and a brand inspection do. Also like Cowchick said, work with the AQHA and you will get her registered eventually in your name if it is indeed the actual horse on those papers.

I have seen a few private sales where the horse in question was sold as grade because there was no transfer but the former owner provided papers saying it was the horse in the paperwork trying to jack up the price. DNA often proves otherwise so on brand inspections we put grade whether it has papers or not if the papers aren't in your name or don't have an open transfer on them. Most auctions in the western us do this as well. The horse sells grade, period, if the paperwork isn't in order to be transferred.

Two years ago I was given a registered QH that turned out to be a rotten bucker, the old guy who gave him to me had long since lost his papers somewhere in his piles of junk at his place. I sold him at auction as grade just to get rid of him as I won't keep a sour horse around my place. There are a lot of reasons a registered horse can go grade at an auction. That is just one example.

Due to various reasons a lot of good horses get sold loose at auction for little to nothing. The best rope horse I know locally was bought for $700 at a loose horse sale. He has had over a hundred thousand dollars won off him so far in his life and he is no where close to retirement. I bet he will break a half million or so by the time he is retired barring injury.

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Last edited by boots; 02-23-2020 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Language. Typing around censors
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post #29 of 30 Old 02-27-2020, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyTheCornbread View Post
Due to various reasons a lot of good horses get sold loose at auction for little to nothing. The best rope horse I know locally was bought for $700 at a loose horse sale. He has had over a hundred thousand dollars won off him so far in his life and he is no where close to retirement. I bet he will break a half million or so by the time he is retired barring injury.
There are good horses sold at auction every week, sometimes just because the owner doesn't want to feed them over the winter. See it all the time here.

The owner probably just wanted some quick cash so sold the horse for whatever, with no minimum bid. She has no feelings for the horse, except for the $$ she can get. Then saw an opportunity to obtain more money, by selling the transfer papers. I feel sorry for the kids she has...sounds like she is using them as pawns to get pity money. If a person is frugal, they can take care of kids on very little money.
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post #30 of 30 Old 02-27-2020, 11:06 AM
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I want to second that you need to contact AQHA - many years ago we went through something very similar to this. We purchased a daughter of Concluded at an auction. She was sent through with papers and an unsigned transfer. When we went to get her registered in our name it became a whole nother issue! We paid $600 for her because she had been shipped on a meat truck to IA - she was on that meat truck because she had an eye injury that caused her to be blind in one eye and cosmetically changed how her face looked (one eye was smaller and weepy and there was some scarring) so she could not fulfill the show dreams of the owner. She was a gorgeous mare that we were happy to have for a trail horse. But since we had no signed transfer AQHA stepped in - and even back then in the early 90's they had to contact the last owner on her papers to get them to sign the transfer - they refused and AQHA did some other things (I think they had to research and determine why etc) it took us well over 6 months but we got her papers.

You need to get AQHA involved there are bi-laws in almost all breed registries that protect buyers (and owners) and selling a horse and withholding papers is a no no. Memberships are how these registries make money and a registered horse that cannot be registered by the new owner costs that breed registry money.

Contact AQHA.
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