Feeding hay cubes or chopped hay - Page 5 - The Horse Forum
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post #41 of 63 Old 11-17-2019, 06:49 PM
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I'm sure it's a relief to see the weight gain and he is obviously happy to be with you!

I was thinking he was being a bit picky about the feed.
Anyhow, I'll see what I can find out about the bentonite use in the feed.
I was told at some point, so take it got what it's worth, bentonite isn't for long time use. It's best for as needed(like times of stress) or to test for foregut ulcers due to it's coating properties. Im sure someone here knows better than I do though.

I'm not sure about the best option as far as nutrition I'm starting to educate myself after all these years. For so long because of our work situation with our horses, we weren't really given much of an option. Goodness sake there's a lot of information out there, it's overwhelming. I'm finding there's some sorting between the marketing hype from the science.

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post #42 of 63 Old 11-17-2019, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AnitaAnne View Post
Vet says Herbie is 20 yrs old. His teeth had not been taken care of. He was being fed bread because he couldn't eat hay

I don't think we have Speedibeet here, is that a brand?

Oh geez, what a story about poor Herbie- so wonderful he found his way to you. He really is a nice looking horse.



Yes, Speedibeet is a brand. Like @jaydee said, it's a British brand but seems to be available in the states online. There are a couple of local feed stores here that carry it. Here's a place you can search for dealers nearby once you enter your zipcode: https://emeraldvalleyequine.com/dealers/
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post #43 of 63 Old 11-17-2019, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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The closest source of speedibeet is 90+ miles away in Georgia.

I looked at the bag of cubed hay (it is here because I have to soak it) and it has the Bentonite in it. Dangit. If that is not safe for long term use...well now another thing to worry about.

Plus I was giving it to my rabbits too don't know if that is safe for rabbits at all.

Maybe I just need to stick to the senior feed
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post #44 of 63 Old 11-17-2019, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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I checked the chopped alfalfa bag at the barn when I fed tonight. Much to my relief there is no Bentonite!

It is still Standlee brand. Ingredients are: Alfalfa hay sun cured (chopped) Canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, flavored with rosemary extract)

Hopefully that is all safe...
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post #45 of 63 Old 11-18-2019, 04:31 AM
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I think you've had some great advice for feeding Herbie.

If you have any chance to ask another opinion on his teeth at some point, I would. If he has sharp points in his mouth, I don't understand how making those flat and more comfortable would be worse if he already does not have the dentition to chew. If a good vet can't make even a couple flat surfaces to meet up for grinding, then at least wouldn't it be better for him to make his mouth comfortable while gumming his food around? As I understand it, points create ulcerations inside the cheeks. A mouth without sores inside would have to improve eating, wouldn't it?

My 28 year old does not have a lot of dental surface left, but she still has power floats and has had them for 16 years. The vet tries to make what little teeth she has left comfortable, and does not remove anything except what sticks up painfully or prevents surfaces from meeting. I wouldn't think sharp points would be very useful for chewing, and even if that's all he has sticking up from the gums it would seem better to smooth them out.
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post #46 of 63 Old 11-18-2019, 12:07 PM
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Just chiming in on the Standlee products. They also offer $2 off coupons regularly and I know TSC will price match so if you find a price lower or on sale somewhere else ask for a pricematch. I have a hard keeper - she is 21 yrs old and I feed her soaked alfalfa pellets in the winter. I put these in a separate tub than her hay. I have also soaked them in the house put them in a large tub some in a larger tub and fluffed them up and let then mostly dry again so she can act like she has hay - she does eat hay but she is a picky sensitive horse so if 1 blade of hay displeases her she will walk away from the entire pile of hay. There is also something I have just seen advertised locally called Alfahay and I have thought about trying it for my picky girl.
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post #47 of 63 Old 11-18-2019, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gottatrot View Post
I think you've had some great advice for feeding Herbie.

If you have any chance to ask another opinion on his teeth at some point, I would. If he has sharp points in his mouth, I don't understand how making those flat and more comfortable would be worse if he already does not have the dentition to chew. If a good vet can't make even a couple flat surfaces to meet up for grinding, then at least wouldn't it be better for him to make his mouth comfortable while gumming his food around? As I understand it, points create ulcerations inside the cheeks. A mouth without sores inside would have to improve eating, wouldn't it?

My 28 year old does not have a lot of dental surface left, but she still has power floats and has had them for 16 years. The vet tries to make what little teeth she has left comfortable, and does not remove anything except what sticks up painfully or prevents surfaces from meeting. I wouldn't think sharp points would be very useful for chewing, and even if that's all he has sticking up from the gums it would seem better to smooth them out.
My vet is an equine specialist and quite experienced. No real need for a second opinion in this case. I 100% trust him and respect his knowledge. He did mention that Herbie didn't have anything left to even chew grass with. So after we returned home I started watching Herbie, and sure enough he will graze and leave chewed up grass wads.

I too (before Herbie) thought that any teeth could be fixed, and that great improvement would be made in weight gain after floating the teeth.

But Herbie doesn't really have any molars, those points are all he has. I did ask the vet if he could flatten them out a bit, and he did do that. The only teeth Herbie really has is his front teeth. He gums everything...
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post #48 of 63 Old 11-19-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnitaAnne View Post
Thus on to my questions!

Does any one have experience using hay cubes or chopped hay as a sole source of fiber?

I have no idea how much he should be getting daily.

I realize the senior food can be fed as a sole source of nutrition, but I would prefer to add some hay.

I just am unsure how much, and I'm a bit concerned that the chopped hay may need to be wetted too.

Any advice??? Guidelines??? The hay bags had zero feeding instructions on them.

Superman has his grazers, but very little grinding surface left in the back. He gets this, 2xs daily, per vet:

Purina Sr. Feed, topped with rice bran, a senior compound supplement (Just 1x daily for the supplement), and a flatback bucket of soaked alfalfa cubes (We find the Standlee brand soften up faster than Dumore). He can and does still work down the very fine grade alfalfa pellets. Hay and grass are just busy work for him now, but he can and does okay with grass but not enough to maintain weight. Hay is an absolute no go anymore. Salt block and loose mineral are free choice at all times. We keep a 33 lb horse formula protein bucket out at all times as well, and it really helps him keep his weight on.

I can't tell you the exact amounts we feed him - the flatback is 3/4 full of the alfalfa once the water is absorbed. The sr feed is usually 1/3 or a little more of a flatback, topped with a 17 oz plastic drinking glass we use a scoop's worth of rice bran, or two, with each feeding depending on the weather and his activity level.

He has energy, and he's always up for a spirited ride, being fed all that. It's not cheap, in fact, he's incredibly expensive to feed compared to our younger horses... but he's also worth every penny of it.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #49 of 63 Old 11-19-2019, 12:13 PM
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Just thought I'd mention too: Supes has NEVER had a tail of any mention. His mane was also short and scraggly. Those protein tubs also have biotin and fat in them. Since he's had access to them daily for the last 6 months, his tail has grown four inches, and part of his mane is now longer than his neck and thicker. He also shines like a copper penny in the sun when he's been groomed. But it also could be all the other stuff he gets, combined with the tub.

"We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that death will tremble to take us."
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post #50 of 63 Old 11-19-2019, 12:27 PM
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Another option is to go with the chopped forage or could do half chopped forage half cubes. To make up the 1.5 percent of his body weight. Might have to go to 2 percent of his body weight.

Then get a good vit/min to mix in with forage an cubes. Then you could probably drop the senior feed. Then he's on an all forage diet. Just keep a close eye on his weight,but I'd think he should do just fine.

My gelding ice is on a all forage diet no grain no kind of hard feed. I have a vit/min from horse tech I add to his Timothy /alfalfa pellets. Plus he gets free feed hay. A bit of a different situation with my boy,but the all forage diet is working fine.

Out riding my horse.
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