Medications and Chemicals That Harm Horses - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 41 Old 08-12-2020, 09:01 AM
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Hondo, this is scary stuff. Hoping you and horsey Hondo come out ok.
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post #32 of 41 Old 08-12-2020, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
Hondo if you suspecting your horse has been poisoned then you need to get law enforcement involved


..
Law enforcement cannot get involved until there is evidence to investigate. Otherwise they would have been involved 2 years ago. They simply cannot act on, "I know someone did something to my horse because of this and that". That comes under hearsay.


For instance, when Hondo was first foundered two years ago, when first examining his legs and feet, the chestnuts on the front of his legs were removed absolutely smooth to the leg. They had never been under 3/4" tall for the previous 4 years in my care. One of the people, of a few, that I am certain was involved was always after me to remove his chestnuts. But I declined as they didn't bother him nor me.


Chestnuts don't fall off completely flush with the leg. And both were flush. Someone obviously removed them at the same time he foundered.


But can this be turned into law enforcement? I don't think so.


A month after his initial founder, I told a person who I also suspect was involved, husband of the other person, that I was taking Hondo in for x-rays on such and such a day. No one else knew other than the vet.


I had just had a new tire on the left front of the pickup installed at Walmart as I considered it too iffy to have a horse in a trailer behind me. All were checked at 40 PSI which I carry on the truck and trailer as well.


The evening before the appointment while hooking up the trailer, tires were checked. ALL EIGHT tires were at 20 PSI! Can this be turned in to law enforcement? No.


Many other things happened that I intend to write a long story about some day. Some of the things were actually life threatening. Loose wheels, RV propane tampered with, but nothing that couldn't be waved off as normal incidental.


The ranch I was on is over 100 years old. There are 4 adjoining ranches that are as old also. The ranch I was on has had a long history of such shenanigans according to the neighboring ranches. But they didn't tell me that until I left. They knew I wouldn't believe that such charming people could do some of the things they did tell me about. And in fact I wouldn't have believed them until I learned for myself. I have been a bit naive for my entire life but am recovering.


I have few plans in place that I will be enacting. None that will violate the law. Yes, I am waking up and taking action. I was told by one rancher that they liked to find people they could torment just to get their kicks from. Looking back at the treatment of other people that I did witness, I see how true this is.


So I yes have determined to cease being one of those helpless hapless people. It'll make a nice conclusion to my long written story someday.

What would Xenophon say?
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post #33 of 41 Old 08-12-2020, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
I'm wondering if a drop consumed a few days ago could even be measure in a blood tests. All I've found so far is it's very hard to diagnose.

There are enough studies that have been done on ionophore damage that you don't have to test for the substance. If your horse has the signs that indicate damage to affected systems and has certain results in blood work then a diagnosis can be made.





I pulled this from one of the university vet websites but did not get the address before I switched to the study that I did c/p the addy.



Cardiac muscle, skeletal muscle, and the neurologic system are affected by ionophore toxicity. clinical signs are colic, weakness, unsteady gait, diarrhea, and excessive urination. Blood work will usually reveal elevated muscle enzymes. If a horse eats a just few mouthfuls of cattle feed containing the approved amount of monensin for cattle (33 ppm or parts per million), for example, the horse will suffer no adverse effects. Even if the horse eats a small amount of this feed every day for several weeks, the horse might develop only transient anorexia and nothing more serious. However, if a horse ingests several pounds of feed containing very large amounts of monensin, such as 200-300 ppm, this could easily cause death. Studies have indicated that dosages of 1.4 mg monensin per kg of body weight can be fatal to a horse. Clinical signs of ionophore poisoning in horses vary depending on the dosage ingested, but can include poor appetite and feed refusal of the grain product, diarrhea, weakness, rapid heart rate, depression, wobbly gait, colic, sweating, recumbency, and sudden death.In chemistry panels, increased urea and creatinine concentrations may be seen. Creatine kinase, which is especially present in cardiac muscle, may be significantly elevated. Aspartate aminotransferase may also be elevated from tissue damage. On electrolyte panels, sodium changes are not expected, but calcium and potassium tend to decrease initially and then return to normal.



https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1040638714523774 The limits of detection for monensin for the method used were 0.5 ng/ml for serum and urine.
The 5 sera, composed of serum from 2 clinically unaffected (horses E and F) and 3 affected horses (horses A, B, and D), contained between 5.3 and 52 ng/ml of monensin.




Thus, while serum monensin con-centrations do not indicate severity of clinical disease or probable outcome, they can be used antemortem or postmor-tem to confirm monensin exposure



results from two unaffected but exposed horses ng/ml (serum)

Horse E Clinically unaffected 48 hr PE5.3 Horse F Clinically unaffected 48 hr PE24




serum or plasma monensin concentration cannot be used to accurately determine clinical outcome.

Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.
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post #34 of 41 Old 08-12-2020, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by QtrBel View Post
I pulled this from one of the university vet websites but did not get the address before I switched to the study that I did c/p the addy.

Oh shoot! I've done that many times and always forget that I can go to my history and check the last website I was on.

What would Xenophon say?
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post #35 of 41 Old 08-12-2020, 10:44 AM
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Mine is set to clear frequently and I had lost it.

Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.
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post #36 of 41 Old 08-12-2020, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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Well, at least you remembered! :):)

What would Xenophon say?
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post #37 of 41 Old 08-12-2020, 12:57 PM
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You could probably copy paste a sentence into you browser and it would bring it up. I hadn't thought of doing that while on the pc but it works pretty good.

Some horse people change their horse, they change their tack and discipline, they change their instructor; they never change themselves.
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post #38 of 41 Old 08-13-2020, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
The longer you not act, recognize that your horse is facing more peril as those involved will get more brazen about what they are doing and how...

I cannot emphasize how very very true this is. It is a life's lesson that came to me way too late.


When the little things happening became frequent enough and obvious enough to not wave off as normal coincidence or just things that happen, I did not know for certain who the vandal was but somehow convinced myself that they would finally get the fun all done, get bored with it, and stop.


But that did not happen. When it got worse and affecting my safety, I began to clearly suspect who was involved. I did see the pattern of increasing vandalism that could not be easily ignored. And I did begin to wonder if the misdeeds could escalate to Hondo.



It was about this time that I began an earnest search for a way of relocating. I have followed the seasons in an RV for many years so relocating was no problem then, but with a horse, it's not so easy.


Every attempt was blocked until a little over a year ago when a realtor obtained a lender through a brokerage that would lend on manufactured homes. Found the one I'm in and did move.


An old old friend that had moved to a town near the ranch asked me if I thought they would follow me here. He had heard many horror stories about the ranch shortly after moving there. Seems everyone knew but me. He retired as supervisor for special investigators for a district attorney.


And they did follow me here, or people mesmerized by their overflowing charm. And now Hondo has I know been subjected to something much worse than just NSC founder.


I feel very guilty for continually adjusting my blinders to what was happening because I liked living and riding in the area where I was. But ya know what? I've never been in a place I didn't like. And where I am now is the same. So I have no excuse. I could have somehow found a way to leave, because when the problem affected Hondo, I did find a way.


The people I'm dealing with have a huge extended network of people that have no idea who these people really are. They can charm the socks off anyone they want, including me.


The longest running all male annual ride in the US ends at their ranch. For 74 years. An all ladies ride was started soon after and is still running. The people on the ranch that started the rides are all passed. But there are some on the rides that almost worship the ranch and will do anything asked. And they have many other connections they actively cultivate. It's bizarre.


There was even a man shot and killed by 3 of the ranch people and one wife in 1992. That's not long ago. The story I got from the ranch is much different that from a man I encountered who was the first on the scene and was an ex county deputy. He told me the facts.


I almost feel like I was and am living on an old western movie set where lawlessness abounds. But it's real.


So I have my work cut out. But I am finally fully awake. Hondo is showing the same progress of symptoms he did in March but hopefully if he makes it through again he will be alright this time. It'll be up to me.


What I have learned about people that do theses kinds of things is that they are similar to drug addicts in at least one way. The need more and mare to get their thrills. A repeat of what they have already done just doesn't provide the excitement they search for. Sadly, it's actually joy they search for, but that is an emotion they will likely never experience.


Hopefully, in the not too distant future, all four will be incarcerated.

What would Xenophon say?

Last edited by Hondo; 08-13-2020 at 09:22 AM.
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post #39 of 41 Old 08-21-2020, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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I, a \math major, and HS math teacher for a few years, am requesting a check on my arithmetic. Simple stuff, erg...


I've went over my numbers and have not found my mistake, but over looking one's own error is common both in math and written pros. .


The Horse dot com states: Studies have indicated that dosages of 1.4 mg monensin per kg of body weight can be fatal to a horse.


Premeir1 offers a 50 pound bag of RU-MIX for $60. Just hit the add to cart and credit info and it's on it's way.


The active ingredient on the tag says: Monensin .................................................. ................. 5,800 gm/ton



https://www.premier1supplies.com/img/product/pdf/780066-rumix.pdf


I came up with 0.635 grams or 0.0224 ounces of these crumbles to kill a horse.


I'm certain I'm overlooking something.



Somebody check my numbers please! Put some egg on my face!!:):)

What would Xenophon say?
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post #40 of 41 Old 08-22-2020, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
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Ok. Woke up at 2 AM and realized the error.


0.0224 ounces is the amount of pure monesin it would take to kill a 1000 pound horse.


It would take 2.22 ounces of the crumbles top dressing to kill a 1000 pound horse.


But if the top dressing is applied at the correct rate to hay, it would take 21.7 pounds to kill a horse. But fed straight is deadly to horses. Cows too as it only takes 20 times as much to kill a cow.


Scary stuff to have around IMO!

What would Xenophon say?
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