Opinions on my feed plan? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SammysMom View Post
As for "natural" forage, there's some grass but not a ton, as well as blackberry bushes and other wild stuff that he snacks on.

When you say snacks on....
Is he allowed to eat hay in peace and he walks off to eat the blackberry bushes and other stuff by choice?
Or is he "snacking" on blackberry bushes because he can't get his fill of hay?

You mention being given hay 2x a day and a group of 10 or so other horses fed together....
So...they are spreading 3-4 full bales of hay each time they feed at a minimum?
So I did some quick math and averages....
Bale weight = 40 pounds
horse weight = 1000 pound...
So, 1/5 -2% in hay is 15 - 20 pounds a day....
averaging 10 pounds per horse per feeding.
Some horses weigh more, consume more...see where this is going? That is a considerable pile of hay he gets to eat all by himself, his ration...

Have you ever sat quietly out of sight and watched the horses when they are fed?
Does your horse get chased off the hay, have to move off and sneak back to the hay pile to grab a mouthful?
Or is your horse "a leader" and he eats his fill and no one dares to move him off till he is done?
You should see him standing in one place for quite some time munching if he truly is getting all he needs and wants of hay...
He wanders away his free-will?

My horses have access to blackberry bushes if they go over their fence...my jam bushes!!
They don't "snack" on mine intentionally even when loaded with ripe fruit.
They are much happier if I toss them their hay and they have at it....they don't walk away for some time...except to poop then they are back.
Something to think about...


Personally, I think that "recipe" leaves a lot to be desired and to many questions and possibilities of over-feeding things that can be deadly and creating some problems because amounts of other ingredients are not balanced nutritionally.
Your horse is a individual...feed him as such not because someone else horse supposedly does well on it...
Shame on your trainer for making such a suggestion. She of all people should know horses are individuals and need fed as such.

Yes, buy a packaged feed from a well-known quality manufacturer..
A complete or Senior feed {unless your horse is a baby} can be fed to all and will benefit your horse better fed in amounts {all horse food is fed by weight not volume} according to how much hay he is fed and gets to eat, and how much he is supposed to weigh at his proper weight.
Feeding proper amounts of food if you even need "feed" will also give you a proper balance of vitamins and minerals the horse needs daily to thrive the best.
Otherwise, once your horse is getting his full ration of hay and has gained, maintains a good weight then a ration balancer is all you need fed in proper amounts once again, no guessing...weigh it out till you know the spot on the scoop your boy needs.

That said, are you sure it is weight {fat} he needs on his frame not muscle and conditioning?
Just a thought...
....
jmo...


The worst day is instantly better when shared with my horse.....
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post #12 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 12:25 PM
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Agree, forage has to be the main part on any horse's diet, and should be available free choice, esp for a horse that has a keeping weight problem
You also provide free choice minerals and salt.
Then, and only then, if the horse can't keep weigh and perform activities demanded, on that forage feed alone, do you add what is missing, in the form of some concentrate
Of course, if the horse has no assess to grass, is only getting hay, you have to supplement vit A and E and omega 3 and 6
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post #13 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 12:56 PM
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Normally Omega 6 is in plentiful supply in grass or alfalfa hay---it's the Omega 3's you need to supplement along with vitamins A and E.
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post #14 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie View Post
Normally Omega 6 is in plentiful supply in grass or alfalfa hay---it's the Omega 3's you need to supplement along with vitamins A and E.
Yes, but anything like flax, canola oil and fish oil (good luck feeding that last one ), the three sources of fat recommended to be fed to horses, have the correct omega 3 to 6 ratio, but still are not void of omega 6, thus you just add the fat source with the high omega 3 to 6.

I guess you could buy commercial products , with only omega 3, but I use the KISS principle, thus use flax as my source of omegas.
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post #15 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 02:47 PM
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Omega 6 to omega 3 ratio table
Omega 6 Omega 3 Total
Krill Oil 1.6% 20.0%
Canola Oil 5.5% 11.0%
- converted from ALA
Flaxseed Oil 18.0% 55.0%
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post #16 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 02:51 PM
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From this link:
"Unfortunately, scientists have not yet pinpointed the ideal ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids for horses, however, fortifying a diet with these fatty acids to achieve a ratio of 2 – 5:1 omega-3 (ALA, EPA & DHA) to omega-6 (LA) may provide some key benefits to your horse.

As always, when adding dietary supplements to the diet, make sure the total diet stays balanced and that changes are made gradually so the horse’s digestive track has time to adjust. Benefits from providing omega fatty acids in the diet are not realized immediately, but take 30 – 90 days of supplementation before benefits are detectable, so be patient and make sure your expectations are realistic.


https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid...to%206%20ratio

I don't feed grains, which are high in omega 6, and thus supplementing with a fat that has a 5 to 1 ratio of omega 3 to 6, works for me. If you feed grains, which are high in Omega 6 (never heard that of omega 6 being high in grass or hay ), then perhaps you need to feed a product that is processed to contain only omega 3. Both of these fatty acids are lost in hay, and my IR horse is on hay, thus needs an oil that supplies both, in the correct ratio

Last edited by Smilie; 08-08-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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post #17 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 03:02 PM
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Sources of Omega-3 Fatty Acids:
Forages (pasture and hay) contain more omega-3 than omega-6 fatty acids. Even though forages are low in total fat, horses consuming adequate forage (especially fresh pasture) consume a significant amount of omega-3 fatty acids.
Oils that contain more omega-3 than omega-6 are flaxseed, linseed oil, and fish oils. Fish oils provide the highest levels of omega-3 fatty acids.
Oils moderately high in omega-6 are soybean and canola oils.
Oils high in omega-6, but low in omega-3, are corn oil, sunflower oil, and safflower oil.
Cereal grains contain almost no omega-3 fatty acids and are very high in omega-6 fatty acids.
Equine nutritionists and veterinarians agree that providing high-quality omega-3 fatty acids in a horse’s diet helps to maintain a healthy balance between omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids.


Thus, it is grain, not forage, that is high in omega 6, and can throw that balance off


Omega Fatty Acid Balance Is Essential to Good Health - Kentucky Performance Products
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post #18 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilie View Post
Yes, but anything like flax, canola oil and fish oil (good luck feeding that last one ), the three sources of fat recommended to be fed to horses, have the correct omega 3 to 6 ratio, but still are not void of omega 6, thus you just add the fat source with the high omega 3 to 6.

I guess you could buy commercial products , with only omega 3, but I use the KISS principle, thus use flax as my source of omegas.

My point was that you mentioned supplementing Omega 6 which really isn't necessary since hay has plenty. Flax is an excellent source of both Omega 3 and 6, but is normally fed for the Omega 3's and its anti-inflammatory properties. I agree on KISS for feeding horses----now I just need to convince hubby works for people too
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post #19 of 28 Old 08-08-2016, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
When you say snacks on....
Is he allowed to eat hay in peace and he walks off to eat the blackberry bushes and other stuff by choice?

...
The boys get several bales split into piles spread out along the fence. I haven't yet watched the entire feeding from dropped to gone, but whenever I get there and there's hay on the ground, he's eating it, too. I only see him and the other guys nibbling on bushes when they're hanging by the fence. There's enough grass that they munch on it most of the day, but it's not thick.


Quote:
Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
That said, are you sure it is weight {fat} he needs on his frame not muscle and conditioning?
He does also need muscle and conditioning, but he needs some weight, too, and he's getting more exercise now than he was before, so the muscle will come.


I think I'll start him on a senior feed (he's 13) and see how he does. I feel better giving him what tons of research has gone into rather than messing with it.

Thank you guys! You snapped me out of the feeding-terror fog ;)

"...and may your life be filled with good horses." Buck Brannaman

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post #20 of 28 Old 08-09-2016, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie View Post
My point was that you mentioned supplementing Omega 6 which really isn't necessary since hay has plenty. Flax is an excellent source of both Omega 3 and 6, but is normally fed for the Omega 3's and its anti-inflammatory properties. I agree on KISS for feeding horses----now I just need to convince hubby works for people too
Well, we are basically saying the same thing,When I said to supplement essential fatty acids, it was understood that you would use a source with the correct omega 3 to 6 ration as recommended by equine nutritionists like Dr Lori Warren
Omega 3 is actually high in grass, but fat source,period , is low in hay, thus use supplement a fat source like flax, canola oil or fish oil, which does have high omega3 to 6, but you are supplementing both, in the right amount!
You don't use corn oil or sunflower seeds,(Boss ) as was often done in the past, as they have mainly omega 6
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