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post #1 of 12 Old 09-09-2014, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Critique Horse

I made a big change from Modern dressage to Classical dressage, currently im mostly focusing on my hands and use of my seat, leg aids and use of whip, my position obviously isnt very good and i cant multitask everything all at once yet.

School is finishing soon hopefully i can find a good trainer, who understands my horse cannot be forced into a head set with low hands, i have never had an instructor who taught me the correct way of asking a horse to flex or collect via the bit. It seems that there is not a very broad way of training horses and they have to comply or else they get punished, it didnt work for my horse at all ive tried methods of punishment and the end result is fear and anxiety from the horse. So glad i learnt my lessons although every while and than i can resort to my bad habit of to harsh of hands, i guess time and repetition of good techniques will overcome that.

I am unable to afford lessons, haven't been able to afford lessons for months but i have to say, bad advice is worse than no advice, for the first time in my life i actually feel like im riding a horse properly of the forehand, before i was just working on a frame and hardly ever self carriage or even relaxation.

Lately ive been doing leg yielding at a walk,neck reining, transitions, walk to canter, lose rein at canter with horse stretching a little, trotting with self carriage and trotting with the horse stretching through the back. Also doing a bit of a shoulder in for the benefits of suppling the horse, i think Red finds the shoulder in much easier than the legyield since he can only do a proper legyield for about 3 strides but a good start nonetheless.

Red can lean onto the bit to much, although i hear thats common when a horse is learning about contact, in which i have to resist and ask him to carry himself.

Reds been salivating a good ammount but he can open his mouth to much, i still think my hands need to be much softer all the time, at one point i was riding just with my pinkie finger and not sure if i should go back to that.

I find tips for getting the horse supple helpful and exercises to do.
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The foolish reject what they see, not what they think,
The wise reject what they think, not what they see.
-Huang Po
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-09-2014, 01:10 PM
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sit up straight , no not learn forward. open your front more (lengthen it, it's curling up in a "C" or as I say "prawn" shape), look forward, roll your hand more thumbs on top.

it looks a bit like you might be driving with your seat. relax, if horse needs drive, flutter your ankle on him. or use your crop.
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post #3 of 12 Old 09-09-2014, 01:20 PM
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I cant really comment on Classical Dressage position much because I still subscribe to the German aids over the French...however I am no stranger to the French method of training since my mom subscribes to it and trains with the Classical Master Dominique Barbier. In fact she just hosted her 3rd clinic here in CO with him last weekend. She does his symposiums and has private lessons when he comes out here. I really wanted to have him ride my horse for a lesson because Im curious what he would think!

That said, from auditing his lessons/clinics, he does a TON of shoulder-in. At the walk and trot, shoulder-in is the first thing he has people do. So I would do some shoulder-in's; making sure you just turn your seat, look ahead, and get your horse to do it just from those subtle cues.

Do you lunge and do the classical in hand work before riding? I would highly recommend that. I guess I am sort of a hybrid when I work my horse as I do the in hand and lunging every time. Lunge with one side rein and connecting the lunge through the bit and to your second girth buckle, make sure the horse is moving on the bit. The do the in hand of moving hind and shoulders in first and second positions. Then get on.

It is hard to find a trainer who uses these methods, my mom did it all via symposiums and Dominique's books; which I highly recommend if youre going the classical route.
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post #4 of 12 Old 09-09-2014, 01:38 PM
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I really like this 'prawn people' description!!
He's a big rangy horse with a lot of neck length that's low in front of you so he's going to be harder to work into a classical dressage frame than the typical compact, shorter necked Iberian type horses that have lots of natural elevation and a higher arched neck carriage
Tinyliny is right about the 'prawn' thing - in the one picture, you have to resist the urge to allow yourself to lean into him - and sit up and sit deep and bring him to you with your legs, hands and body
I think you can do this if you work at it, you're a pretty solid rider and determined enough to take on the challenge
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post #5 of 12 Old 09-09-2014, 11:13 PM
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Ha! Big time prawn here! Yes definitely open your cabinet. You know that picture of the Indian sitting on the horse with his arms outstretched and looking up at the sky? Do that. If you have half the muscle memory problem I do, you can way overdo it the other way and still not be there. Every little bit helps with posture corrections. Like Tiny said, that horse has a lot of neck hanging out there and doesn't need any more weight over him on that end.

To help you horse soften up a bit, maybe try riding squares at the walk and trot. Particularly at the walk, doing a 1/4 turn on forehand at each corner really helps to unlock the jaw. At the trot it's a bit more of leg yield to make the corner, but has the same affect.
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post #6 of 12 Old 09-10-2014, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
sit up straight , no not learn forward. open your front more (lengthen it, it's curling up in a "C" or as I say "prawn" shape), look forward, roll your hand more thumbs on top.

it looks a bit like you might be driving with your seat. relax, if horse needs drive, flutter your ankle on him. or use your crop.

Do you think riding without stirrups would help my position i think i rely on stirrups to much, ive been riding bareback allot lately so wouldnt be worried about horse spooking.

The foolish reject what they see, not what they think,
The wise reject what they think, not what they see.
-Huang Po
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post #7 of 12 Old 09-11-2014, 12:12 PM
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^^^^That might help but you already ride a lot bareback and if he's heavy on your hands going downwards having stirrups could be better than not having them if he pulls you forwards
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post #8 of 12 Old 09-11-2014, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcailer View Post
I cant really comment on Classical Dressage position much because I still subscribe to the German aids over the French...however I am no stranger to the French method of training since my mom subscribes to it and trains with the Classical Master Dominique Barbier. In fact she just hosted her 3rd clinic here in CO with him last weekend. She does his symposiums and has private lessons when he comes out here. I really wanted to have him ride my horse for a lesson because Im curious what he would think!

That said, from auditing his lessons/clinics, he does a TON of shoulder-in. At the walk and trot, shoulder-in is the first thing he has people do. So I would do some shoulder-in's; making sure you just turn your seat, look ahead, and get your horse to do it just from those subtle cues.


Do you lunge and do the classical in hand work before riding? I would highly recommend that. I guess I am sort of a hybrid when I work my horse as I do the in hand and lunging every time. Lunge with one side rein and connecting the lunge through the bit and to your second girth buckle, make sure the horse is moving on the bit. The do the in hand of moving hind and shoulders in first and second positions. Then get on.

It is hard to find a trainer who uses these methods, my mom did it all via symposiums and Dominique's books; which I highly recommend if youre going the classical route.
So i tried replying three times on my phone to every 1 and it deleted everything, so here i go again on the computer !
thanks ill check out symposiums and dominiques books hopefuly there not to expensive for m.

What in hand exersizes i do:
Releasing the jaw
stretching the neck
ive havent much been moving the shoulders and hindquarters but a good idea since in the leg yield he leads with his shoulders most the time.

What id like to learn how to do:
Shoulder in, in hand (i think it would be hard)
Long rein (my horse is near bombproof doesnt care ropes or reins touching him or flying around)

The foolish reject what they see, not what they think,
The wise reject what they think, not what they see.
-Huang Po
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post #9 of 12 Old 09-11-2014, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
I really like this 'prawn people' description!!
He's a big rangy horse with a lot of neck length that's low in front of you so he's going to be harder to work into a classical dressage frame than the typical compact, shorter necked Iberian type horses that have lots of natural elevation and a higher arched neck carriage
Tinyliny is right about the 'prawn' thing - in the one picture, you have to resist the urge to allow yourself to lean into him - and sit up and sit deep and bring him to you with your legs, hands and body
I think you can do this if you work at it, you're a pretty solid rider and determined enough to take on the challenge

Thanks for that advice, im finding that its hard to try and teach Red to differeniate between long and low without leaning and when i go back to self carriage he tries to do long and low. And i usually let him go long and low because i think keep the back round, but his actually trying to lean and travel on the forehand. I cant believe i just figured out what i was doing wrong in this given moment because im getting advice and actually thinking back to how i ride and the effects it causes. Should i ride long and low with lose reins and than self carriage on contact, is that enough so the horse knows the difference between the two ?

The foolish reject what they see, not what they think,
The wise reject what they think, not what they see.
-Huang Po
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post #10 of 12 Old 09-11-2014, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck View Post
Ha! Big time prawn here! Yes definitely open your cabinet. You know that picture of the Indian sitting on the horse with his arms outstretched and looking up at the sky? Do that. If you have half the muscle memory problem I do, you can way overdo it the other way and still not be there. Every little bit helps with posture corrections. Like Tiny said, that horse has a lot of neck hanging out there and doesn't need any more weight over him on that end.

To help you horse soften up a bit, maybe try riding squares at the walk and trot. Particularly at the walk, doing a 1/4 turn on forehand at each corner really helps to unlock the jaw. At the trot it's a bit more of leg yield to make the corner, but has the same affect.
Defintaley sounds like this would help me, i have been doing a bit of this and it does get Red softer as his not as flexible in the smaller circles exspecially at the trot. I just need to actually keep doing these important exersizes, i need to remeber every time i ride to make it interesting as i spend most of the time on the circle.

The foolish reject what they see, not what they think,
The wise reject what they think, not what they see.
-Huang Po
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