New To Horse Forum--Issues with Riding - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 12:01 PM
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It's hard to say what helped me really gain the confidence to trust him not to take off. I noticed a big difference the instant I changed his bit, and then as I rode more and more effectively, and he behaved better and better, I got more and more confident.

He was 15 when I bought him and knew better. On a younger horse I would have stuck with my instructor and kept trying to get the results with good training because I don't like resorting to gadgets or to bigger bits, but the bigger bit allowed me to be gentler with him, to apply the pressure I needed to apply in a more tactful manner, and (most importantly) gave me the CONFIDENCE to stop jamming him up.

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post #12 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezrider View Post
Thank you all for your input, thoughts, and advice. I totally agree that a horse should not be "cowboyed" or "dominated"...unfortunately the grim reality out here in this "neck of the woods" is that people are extremely ignorant towards advances in techniques and methodologies (I'm talking like 1800's....). People around here view animals as beasts of burden and not the gentle, graceful, intelligent herd animals which they are.

When I was riding this horse, I tried to do what I could with what I was taught growing up, but as TXHorseman stated, I believe this horse was just taught to run and be yanked, and therefore, has no knowledge of pressure, commands, etc. :(
It's truly disheartening, I can only seek more advice and support on this forum from like-minded individuals with a heart.

I don't know how I can communicate with a horse that doesn't know or understand how to be communicated with :( I have been fine on other horses....*sigh*
Anyone who rides a horse is speaking a different language. Even if two people appear to be using the same cues, differences such as length of legs, weight, etc. would introduce differences equivalent to different dialects or accents. Therefore, anyone riding a new horse should try to help the horse come to understand the language the rider is speaking. This is best done in a relaxed atmosphere.

If a person does not understand what another person is saying, it seldom helps if the other person simply yells the same words more loudly. It is better if the person trying to communicate tries to explain things a little bit differently.

When working with a horse, gentle guidance helps prevent tension which tends to interfere with communication. An example of how to develop communication with a horse would be to sit calmly and apply a light pulling pressure to the side with one rein while releasing pressure on the opposite rein. If the horse simply resists, just keep the pressure light and steady. If the horse pulls its neck the opposite way, go with it rather than fighting. When the horse relaxes, apply the pressure again. When the horse shows the least indication of understanding and responding correctly, release any pressure. Build the language of communication from there.

This is just one example of how communication can be established in a calm manner. You should be able to figure out other "words" for your communication. Just remember that learning comes easier in a relaxed atmosphere.

A horse that has been handled roughly may, at first, seem resistant to learning any language a human uses in an effort to communicate. As the horse begins to understand that this person is actually trying to communicate in a reasonable manner, the horse normally begins making an effort to understand more and more. The horse will begin to respond much more quickly and readily to this person than to one who uses force to demand compliance.
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post #13 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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That makes sense; this horse is quite young and can probably be turned around with proper and patient training, I hope that I will have the opportunity to work with him more (as he is not mine) because truly he is intelligent and just such a sweetheart on the ground.

Thank you for the input :) I think the more people post the more inspired I will be to seek training for myself. I am a worrisome and somewhat nervous person by nature, I think if I were a horse I would definitely be "spooky" lol so I know I need to build my own self-confidence and assurance so it can transfer to my riding. I am excited to see what can become of my riding career!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue eyed pony View Post
It's hard to say what helped me really gain the confidence to trust him not to take off. I noticed a big difference the instant I changed his bit, and then as I rode more and more effectively, and he behaved better and better, I got more and more confident.

He was 15 when I bought him and knew better. On a younger horse I would have stuck with my instructor and kept trying to get the results with good training because I don't like resorting to gadgets or to bigger bits, but the bigger bit allowed me to be gentler with him, to apply the pressure I needed to apply in a more tactful manner, and (most importantly) gave me the CONFIDENCE to stop jamming him up.
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post #14 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Your post just gave me chills! With all sincerity what you said just makes so much sense and I will heed your words of advice. :) I have been so accustomed to growing up in an environment where horses are just seen as "things."

To put things in perspective, I came upon a "horse clinic" where horses were being gelded....(warning this is graphic) and they smeared the blood and testes all over the horse, put his testes in his nose, and poured salt on the horse as a "blessing." Yeah. This is where I live. This is simply the reality of the culture of where I live. I cannot bash on it because after all, this is the collective culture of the people where I grew up and chose to live, however, it's sickening and sad to see horses subjected to such cruelties. But the people here just don't think it's cruel. It's "normal."

Sorry to go off topic, but I think it's a poignant and necessary point to include.

I will certainly work with the advice you gave me as far as pressure and releasing are concerned. How about rewarding the horse for a job well done (i.e. giving a snack) once all work is completed? Or will that make the horse want to "take a mile"??




Quote:
Originally Posted by TXhorseman View Post
Anyone who rides a horse is speaking a different language. Even if two people appear to be using the same cues, differences such as length of legs, weight, etc. would introduce differences equivalent to different dialects or accents. Therefore, anyone riding a new horse should try to help the horse come to understand the language the rider is speaking. This is best done in a relaxed atmosphere.

If a person does not understand what another person is saying, it seldom helps if the other person simply yells the same words more loudly. It is better if the person trying to communicate tries to explain things a little bit differently.

When working with a horse, gentle guidance helps prevent tension which tends to interfere with communication. An example of how to develop communication with a horse would be to sit calmly and apply a light pulling pressure to the side with one rein while releasing pressure on the opposite rein. If the horse simply resists, just keep the pressure light and steady. If the horse pulls its neck the opposite way, go with it rather than fighting. When the horse relaxes, apply the pressure again. When the horse shows the least indication of understanding and responding correctly, release any pressure. Build the language of communication from there.

This is just one example of how communication can be established in a calm manner. You should be able to figure out other "words" for your communication. Just remember that learning comes easier in a relaxed atmosphere.

A horse that has been handled roughly may, at first, seem resistant to learning any language a human uses in an effort to communicate. As the horse begins to understand that this person is actually trying to communicate in a reasonable manner, the horse normally begins making an effort to understand more and more. The horse will begin to respond much more quickly and readily to this person than to one who uses force to demand compliance.
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post #15 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 12:36 PM
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Rezrider, what bit is this horse in currently? I have a feeling that it's probably a basic, cheap fixed-shank grazing curb or a Tom Thumb.

If your fiancÚ is alright with you working with this horse and trying to remedy this habit, might I suggest something like a Jr Cowhorse or TenderTouch bit? You can get a knock-off of the TenderTouch at Tractor Supply for less than $25 and I've seen Jr Cowhorses on Amazon for around $30. I personally like these bits because they give a little clearer communication, like a snaffle would, but it also has curb and gag action that add a little more bite if you need it. My gelding has a habit of ignoring snaffles, but he LOVES a Jr Cowhorse/TenderTouch, especially with a sweet iron and copper mouth.

I wish you lived closer! I would love to help you!
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post #16 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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You are right he uses a Tom Thumb with a 2 inch shank with some copper. He was newly introduced to it, don't know what kind of bit he was in before but by the sounds of it he has become "hard mouthed" and unresponsive to just about every rider because the 220 pound guy who owns him just jerks him around--so he has become accustomed to this. :(

I will look out for these bits--we have a Tractor Supply in Flag (I live close enough) or if not I'll look for them online. Since he is a full Arabian what size
would you suggest?? I haven't measured his mouth but I would assume his head and mouth are pretty standard for an Arabian (like a "medium" sized head/mouth?) I should probably look into that....

I know I wish I lived closer to people with more knowledge of horses because out here I can't become a better (i.e., skilled and knowledgeable) rider. Riding is not just getting on a horse and running. Ugh!



Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum View Post
Rezrider, what bit is this horse in currently? I have a feeling that it's probably a basic, cheap fixed-shank grazing curb or a Tom Thumb.

If your fiancÚ is alright with you working with this horse and trying to remedy this habit, might I suggest something like a Jr Cowhorse or TenderTouch bit? You can get a knock-off of the TenderTouch at Tractor Supply for less than $25 and I've seen Jr Cowhorses on Amazon for around $30. I personally like these bits because they give a little clearer communication, like a snaffle would, but it also has curb and gag action that add a little more bite if you need it. My gelding has a habit of ignoring snaffles, but he LOVES a Jr Cowhorse/TenderTouch, especially with a sweet iron and copper mouth.

I wish you lived closer! I would love to help you!
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post #17 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 01:02 PM
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Unless he is one of those Arabs with a "seahorse" head, he probably takes a standard 5" mouth, which means in a loose-ring snaffle or gag bit, to avoid pinching the lips, he would need a half an inch bigger (5.5"). I know the TenderTouch knock-off at Tractor Supply is a 5.5" mouth.
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post #18 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 01:19 PM
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For training stopping, I like this video:


FWIW, Mia & Lilly were purebred Arabians. Trooper is 3/4 Arabian. Bandit (from the reservation) is 50:50 Arabian/Mustang. All use a 5" bit in a curb or D-ring. FWIW, Bandit seems to like people. He obviously expects to be treated well. Seemed harder mouth than I would like, but not too bad and he's getting lighter fast.

It is possible to train a horse to stop while using a snaffle. For snaffles, I like D-rings. This is the newest bit I've got, but it shows promise with Bandit:



If the horse is good with curbs, I like the Billy Allen curb bit:



If the horse is already running thru a Tom Thumb curb, then going to a snaffle might reset things in his brain. Work on lateral bends. Start on the ground:


Also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgrqCK7arLA
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post #19 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Great, I will be on the look out! Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum View Post
Unless he is one of those Arabs with a "seahorse" head, he probably takes a standard 5" mouth, which means in a loose-ring snaffle or gag bit, to avoid pinching the lips, he would need a half an inch bigger (5.5"). I know the TenderTouch knock-off at Tractor Supply is a 5.5" mouth.
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post #20 of 20 Old 06-09-2015, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the videos--watched them and I found them useful, now I will try and apply these techniques starting with a halter first. Back to square one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms View Post
For training stopping, I like this video:

Horse Training for the Stop & Back Up - Basic training to sliding stops for reining & cutting. - YouTube

FWIW, Mia & Lilly were purebred Arabians. Trooper is 3/4 Arabian. Bandit (from the reservation) is 50:50 Arabian/Mustang. All use a 5" bit in a curb or D-ring. FWIW, Bandit seems to like people. He obviously expects to be treated well. Seemed harder mouth than I would like, but not too bad and he's getting lighter fast.

It is possible to train a horse to stop while using a snaffle. For snaffles, I like D-rings. This is the newest bit I've got, but it shows promise with Bandit:



If the horse is good with curbs, I like the Billy Allen curb bit:



If the horse is already running thru a Tom Thumb curb, then going to a snaffle might reset things in his brain. Work on lateral bends. Start on the ground:

Teaching Lateral Flexion - YouTube

Also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgrqCK7arLA
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