Why teach/use a one rein stop? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 54 Old 12-16-2018, 09:16 PM
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The thing that TRocha is using that you like is that he uses a bump/response, bump/response technique to get the horse responding. And when people use a ORS where they lock up the rein, you get a hrose that just leans into and spins around. Or, falls out through the bend in the base of the neck/wither, and keeps going forward.


The 'bump' is to break into the thought of the hrose; to interrupt that set where it is blanking out on everything but running. So, bumping is more likely to get its attention. That's 1.


Second is that once you put some bend in a horse's body, you are more likely to be able to control it's forward movement. the trick being 'forward' movement. If the horse stops going forward, but is circling, or even spinning on its' back legs, then you're in trouble. I think that's why circling to a stop works well, if space be available to do this; because you maintain forward movement all the time.


In fact, whenever you feel your horse abandoning a 'forward' projection of his thought, even if he's still physically moving forwardyou'd better be ready to do something to get his mind back on you, and your cues to go forward.
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post #12 of 54 Old 12-16-2018, 09:29 PM
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I'm not a fan of the one rein stop for a bolting emergency.

In the arena if a horse bolts I gallop them and make them work because a lot of the time they are thinking about running somewhere safe and standing. This tricks them back into listening and gets you control.

On the trail though, most of the time I've had a horse take off it hasn't been a safe scenario. On steep ledges, over bridges, into the highway, over slippery asphalt, yeah that's where they decide to be boneheaded. In those scenarios I'm worried if I one rein stop the horse will fall. I opt for a voluntary dismount in the safest area possible when I can if continuing toward danger is the only other option.
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post #13 of 54 Old 12-16-2018, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avna View Post
...The way I use it is simply to get her facing the direction she doesn't want to go. That stops her, because she doesn't want to go that way. She may shy and try to spin away and bolt from something but I just turn her to face it. Then we deal with it from there...
When I got Bandit, he would walk forward with seeming confidence. Until it was too much. Then he'd spin 180 and start to leap away. So when he'd spin 180, I'd give a firm tug on the rein to keep him going until we were facing the threat again.

"This will profit you. This will profit you not." - Tom Roberts

After about a dozen episodes, he decided spinning away 'would profit him not' - and began to look for other answers. Typically, once he held and faced the scary thing, I'd ask him for a 180 and agree we should walk away. Once we got a distance far enough away he didn't feel threatened, I'd turn him back toward the threat, dismount, and SLOWLY lead him - keeping the lead slack and going one step at a time, as he was willing - to the threat. And he would discover it wasn't so scary after all. At first it would take 5-10 minutes to go 50 yards, but then he could do it faster, and then he could do it without my dismounting.

When I was taught to do a one rein stop, I was taught to ALWAYS keep turning until the horse disengaged, crossing the hind leg in front of the other hind leg. I was told that prevented him from trying to bolt again.

Looking back, I think the idea was backwards. I think once the horse no longer felt a need to bolt, he was willing to disengage. But some horses, not all, but horses like Mia, dislike spinning and spin themselves up emotionally, not down.

And in no case have I found it helpful to pull the horse's head all the way around, the way I see some big name trainers doing it. Nor have I seen a need to do it with the harshness I've sometimes seen on video. The first video is kind of how I was taught. Looking back, it just looks so wrong. And I can't help wonder if part of the problems I had with Mia were made worse by having her work this way. She did much better when I got her head connected back to her feet, without what looks like overflexing to me. The second video just seems...well, not for me:


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post #14 of 54 Old 12-17-2018, 07:56 AM
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I could well be wrong here, but I think the only thing that stops a bolting horse is to get his attention back to you and your aids by taking advantage of the fact that horses don't dwell on things - whether that is by whispering, half-halting, or anything else one may attempt.

Consider this: A horse that bolts must genuinely believe it is about to get killed, and he's ready to do whatever it takes to save himself. In this mind set, you are now attempting to impede his efforts to create distance by pulling his head around. I do not see how that deescalates the situation - unless it succeeds in creating a distraction - it's something new to deal with. It's a pretty drastic distraction, so it may have a faster effect than whispering - if it works - but it probably has a more drastic effect when it fails, too.

If a bolting horse came towards me, I would not rely on his former training to stay out of my personal space. Why should his former training of the one-rein stop be any more reliable when I sit on that horse?
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post #15 of 54 Old 12-17-2018, 08:29 AM
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The bottom line is knowing what to do to safely and quickly bring a horse under control when you are facing a potentially dangerous situation. WHATEVER technique works and WHATEVER technique the rider can use without thought - is the one you should use. I think that is where things get confused. This isn't a ring exersize or a practice what could happen type of effort. This is a here and now split second response to whatever situation that even the most trained horse can get you into.

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post #16 of 54 Old 12-17-2018, 08:57 AM
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Grabbing the bit equally with both hands begs for the horse to grab the bit and pull harder in an emergency situation.

Pulley reins, or ORS are proven to get the horse to slow down and start to work in smaller and smaller circles because they can physically not run as hard and must slow down on a spiral circle. But the rider must be smart about how fast they can work the pulley twin in the terrain, and based on the horses training and education.

It has saved me numerous times on young horses learning to hunter pace, fox hunt or simply to become a better trail horse.

On green horses, I NEVER work the bit equally. It is just one side or the other to teach them how to use their body and accept contact. It becomes muscle memory for them- AND ME. I think training young students about how there “can” be an emergency brake is very important to general confidence. Once it becomes second nature, you don’t need to go to the fully overbent horse to get their attention back to you.
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post #17 of 54 Old 12-17-2018, 09:42 AM
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The closest I come to a ORS is flexing a colt’s head to make sure they understand. My horses are taught that WHOA means “whatever is chasing you stops when YOU do” (from driving training) so they usually stop to avert panic.
I had a girl riding one of my ponies, and she taught the pony to circle....ACK...now whenever the pony thinks she is doing something wrong, she flings her head around to circle! Annoying doesn’t quite describe it.....

I also don’t like my horses to back off the bit at any pressure, as this is dangerous in a driving horse,..so I set most NH to ignore.
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post #18 of 54 Old 12-17-2018, 09:45 AM
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I was taught it when I was first learning to ride. Because the 18 year old ex-cow roping horse that I was riding had a bad habit of running me to the barn and through multiple trees on the way there. My toothpick arms weren't strong enough to pull back enough for her to listen. Thats the only time I've had to use it though.
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post #19 of 54 Old 12-17-2018, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmshiro View Post
I could well be wrong here, but I think the only thing that stops a bolting horse is to get his attention back to you...

Consider this: A horse that bolts must genuinely believe it is about to get killed, and he's ready to do whatever it takes to save himself...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dehda01 View Post
Grabbing the bit equally with both hands begs for the horse to grab the bit and pull harder in an emergency situation.

Pulley reins, or ORS are proven to get the horse to slow down and start to work in smaller and smaller circles because they can physically not run as hard...
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmpony84 View Post
The bottom line is knowing what to do to safely and quickly bring a horse under control when you are facing a potentially dangerous situation. WHATEVER technique works and WHATEVER technique the rider can use without thought - is the one you should use...
The rider is likely to do whatever they have been taught, which hopefully matches what the horse has been taught. I'm a backyard rider, not a riding instructor. Thank goodness! The riding world is glad for that! And most people, thankfully, won't experience a fear-based bolt very often. That sort of bolt is rare for most horses, and most horses don't totally lose their minds doing it. I met a lady once who gave up riding as a teen when her horse bolted, ran full speed into a fence, and killed himself. And broke a bunch of her bones and left her with an impressive scar. If a horse has truly lost its mind entirely, the best COA may be to get ready to jump off at speed - then wait to see what follows.

A couple of years ago, Trooper and Cowboy lost it while passing the flapping remains of a trampoline someone had set up in the desert. There was a narrow path around it. It was a much longer ride to turn back and take another route. My DIL & wife are not experienced riders. They were in front with the unflappable Trooper in the lead when Trooper decided it was time to get the heck out of Dodge City. When he sprinted, Cowboy joined him. Bandit wanted to join too, but Bandit & I had a lot of time together and I managed to keep him prancing past it...after a 360 spin.

But Trooper & Cowboy sprinted past. They were afraid, lost it - but lost the nerve to walk by without losing their minds entirely. So...they sprinted. Made a sharp turning climb up a steep 10' rise, got a hundred yards away, and slowed on their own. Their riders hung on, stayed on, didn't do much, and a hundred yards later it was over. Significantly, neither rider clamped down hard, started thrashing, screamed. By the time Bandit & I joined them, they were laughing. Nervously, but laughing.

Bandit is similar. Mia might have dumped 80% of her brain power when afraid, which made it more dangerous. Or did my trying to turn her around by pulling on her head - "taking her head away" is what I was told to do - CAUSE her to dump her situational awareness? Did trying to do an ORS make it worse instead of better? When Bandit first arrived, his reaction was to spin and race away. That can be very dangerous. Particularly since most of his spooks took place on paved roads, except for one under a different rider where he went across three people's yards and ended up on another paved road.

Once he learned spinning violently wasn't a good answer, that I wouldn't try to force him past things, he became a lot more receptive and a lot less frightened. He had OPTIONS. A horse with options, it seems to me, is less likely to lose his mind and more likely to listen to his rider. He hasn't really bolted since learning he had options. He has sometimes moved quickly without being asked, though! When I went to Navigator school in the Air Force an instructor quoted Daniel Boone: "No, I've never been lost. I've sometimes spent a week exploring someplace I hadn't been before, but was never lost!" Now that Bandit and I understand each other, we don't bolt. We sometimes move quickly to a different location where we can reassess things, but we don't bolt!

If both horse and rider know and understand a ORS, then that is undoubtedly the right option for them. If a rider tried it on my horses, the rider would create a problem. I think most big name types agree that a ORS needs to be taught to a horse before one tries it for real.



A ORS is different than riding a circle until you spiral to a slower speed. No room for a big turning circle until you can do a smaller turn here. A properly taught ORS might work here, although I'd be nervous the horse might lose his footing.

I never tell someone to pull hard on both reins and give the horse something to brace against, or incentive to get the bit in his teeth! That is why I use "Bump, bump, bump". Or as Larry Trocha puts it, "Set the wall. Release. Set the wall. Release. Set the wall. Release." Grabbing both reins and hauling back, then holding them back, is pretty worthless. Worse than worthless. It probably makes a bolt worse and teaches terrible habits.

No one makes a horse stop. Only the horse's mind can tell the horse's feet to stop moving. In like manner, no one makes a horse turn. You can pull on its head, kick with your leg, but only the horse's mind can direct his feet to perform a turn.

We can ask. We can ask forcibly. As I look back on my measly 10 years of riding, I think Denny Emerson is on to something. The more forcibly we ask, the more tension and resistance we create.

I've often said switching Mia to a curb bit was critical for teaching her not to bolt. But I also first watched the Larry Trocha video at the same time. And I wonder now if what broke Mia of her bolting habit wasn't the bit, but the less demanding approach: "Set the wall. Release. Set the wall. Release. Set the wall. Release." Maybe it was the advice (and mindset) to "Take her head away" that was causing the problem! Maybe I was taking her mind away at the same time! The advice to punish her - or to "Make the wrong choice harder", which in NH seems a lot like punishing to me - was REALLY wrong. No doubt in my mind about it! The last thing a scared horse needs is for the rider to make her feel worse. Ray Hunt said, "Admire the horse for the good things he does and just kinda ignore the wrong things. First thing you know, the good things will get better and the bad things will get less." That has given me a lot to think about.

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post #20 of 54 Old 12-17-2018, 10:51 AM
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I never heard of the term until I came to the US - but I'd also never heard of 'crest release' either.
I think it has the dangerous potential to give riders (especially newbies) a false sense of security
Most (not all) of the people who claim its worked for them aren't actually being bolted with, their horse has just gotten a little strong and they don't know how to use their own strength to full advantage.
I once saw a woman who rode well, was doing her BHS exams but then sat like a dummy on a horse that got a bit too forward with her at the canter. The horse was regularly ridden, hunted and competed in a normal snaffle bit by a 14 year old who weighed about 100 pounds soaking wet. He never got away from her. The woman claimed that she'd done everything to try to stop him, actually she'd done nothing at all.
If a horse that's trained to slow down and stop to regular cues decides to ignore them then there's a pretty good chance its going to ignore the 1 rein stop too.
Horses that are truly bolting will lock their neck and their jaw so pulling on one rein isn't going to do much to move it. The best you can hope for is to get enough flexion to gradually bring the horse around into ever decreasing circles. You can't do that on a narrow trail or on a road
Its a useful method to use on a horse that's not got into a run, basically still walking or standing still and thinking about bolting away but you have to be fast and you have to get the head right round and then keep the horse moving around itself in a tight circle. You can defuse a rear in the same way. There's no guarantee that the horse won't try to bolt off or rear the moment you stop doing it.
Trick trainers that provide stunt horses for films use a the same technique as a 1 rein stop to get a horse to fall down on the floor - its way too easy to drop a horse that way for me to consider using it at anything more than a walk.
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