Bosals/Hacks/Side-Pulls - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 69 Old 06-25-2009, 05:58 PM
Zab
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I don't know much about bosals, but for an emergency break, mechanial hackamores are better; I think. (Tho I find bosals pretty harsh.. :/ ) They're (hacks) are not dangerous to the horse if you just fit it right; about an inch or so above the point where the nosebone breaks. The hackamore itself doesn't cut the air of the horse, but if you use it to tuck the nose in without getting the horse to relax, the throat won't fit freely between the cheek and the neck, and that can cause the air flow to get worse..

But stopping a horse by just pulling the reins isn't a good idea, remember to sit right, and so on :) The best way I know is to squeese with the top of your leg (thigh and knee), be un-yielding and go against the horses motion, then if that doesn't work, add the rein firmly (not yankning tho) untill the horse stops. Imediate release and relax your body (you might have to stop him immediatly again tho since relaxing could be taken as ''it's ok to go again'').

It's strange how much a small thing does, like this horse I couldn't stop.. I just remembered to sit better and he stopped without touching the reins.

Good job to work on the stops and obdiense, that's the most important thing when you have a problem :)


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #22 of 69 Old 06-25-2009, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zab View Post
I don't know much about bosals, but for an emergency break, mechanial hackamores are better; I think. (Tho I find bosals pretty harsh.. :/ ) They're (hacks) are not dangerous to the horse if you just fit it right; about an inch or so above the point where the nosebone breaks. The hackamore itself doesn't cut the air of the horse, but if you use it to tuck the nose in without getting the horse to relax, the throat won't fit freely between the cheek and the neck, and that can cause the air flow to get worse..

But stopping a horse by just pulling the reins isn't a good idea, remember to sit right, and so on :) The best way I know is to squeese with the top of your leg (thigh and knee), be un-yielding and go against the horses motion, then if that doesn't work, add the rein firmly (not yankning tho) untill the horse stops. Imediate release and relax your body (you might have to stop him immediatly again tho since relaxing could be taken as ''it's ok to go again'').

It's strange how much a small thing does, like this horse I couldn't stop.. I just remembered to sit better and he stopped without touching the reins.

Good job to work on the stops and obdiense, that's the most important thing when you have a problem :)
^^ A while ago I would have considered the mech. hack, but I have heard SOOO many bad things about them that I don't want to take the chance..Thanks for the stopping advice:)
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post #23 of 69 Old 06-25-2009, 08:53 PM
Zab
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It's your decission. :) I wouldn't ride with a bosal..on the other hand, my horse don't know neckreining and I'm using the reins quite much in my riding. Not pulling them or forcing with them, but light touches for flexion and bending and so on..I doubt a bosal would be of any use for that. ^^


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #24 of 69 Old 06-25-2009, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Zab View Post
It's your decission. :) I wouldn't ride with a bosal..on the other hand, my horse don't know neckreining and I'm using the reins quite much in my riding. Not pulling them or forcing with them, but light touches for flexion and bending and so on..I doubt a bosal would be of any use for that. ^^
^^ Well, my horse neck reins very well. I've heard that bosals are good for neck-reiners..Idk.:) I'll have to talk with a bunch or people to get their opinons , then average them all out..Thanx for the imput:) Good luck with your horse..Haha gait-wise.
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post #25 of 69 Old 06-25-2009, 09:11 PM
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Yupyup, best to pick the tool that works best for you, not what works best for someone else :P Of course is info and opinions always good to hear :)
Thanks :)


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #26 of 69 Old 06-26-2009, 02:53 AM
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Mechanical hackamores depend entirely on the length of the shanks, exactly like a curb bit. It also depends on the noseband. A harsh rawhide noseband with big shanks has the potential to create serious damage.

I honestly think you'd enjoy using a short shanked flat band hackamore. We use them on our horses and they're magical. It's the only thing I've found works with my extremely hotheaded on trails Arab mare. She can school in a snaffle, but on trails, she'll destroy my hands because she's convinced we need to be in front. I tried using a tom thumb snaffle but was very concerned about the damage I was causing since I still had to ride with a snug rein, and it created a lot of head tossing.

Since I switched her to a short shanked hack, it's been magical. Because of the fleecy soft noseband, the pinching of the nostrils doesn't happen like it does with rawhide on big hacks and bosals. Your control is coming from the pressure of the noseband, and the curb chain. They're extremely similair to "English hacks" you see showjumpers using. And because of the short shanks, you CAN revert to straight reining if neccesary. Not advised, but it's much easier for them to understand. In my experience it has a ton of "whoa" with very little negative response from the horse. We've ridden some of our crew in long shanked hacks and experienced a lot of head tossing and nervousness, and yet they're happy as clams in a short shanked.

However, depending on the sensitivity of the horse, the short shanked IS mild enough for them to somewhat "ignore" if they choose to. For my Arab, it's an ideal solution since she's so sensitive, she responds 110% better to pressure points then she does metal in the mouth. But Shay-las big Mustang/Appaloosa mare has the sensitivity of a rock and she can flat out ignore it if she's determined to get somewhere. So that shows how "mild" it is - I haven't met a horse alive that can ignore a big tough rawhide hack.



Short shanked hack on my Arab mare. You can see the gentle fleece lined noseband that prevents pinching, but the curb chain gives you that bit of "oomph" for horses who like to think about forgetting to listen to you




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post #27 of 69 Old 06-26-2009, 10:43 AM
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(Tho since the noseband is soft, it forms after the nose = presses down more on the nostrils than the rawhide/sturdy versions. Besides, the padding/fleece does two things; prefent rubs on sensetive horses, and presses the nostrils down more ;) However.. no hackammore is pinching nostrils if it's placed on the right part of the nose. Yours looks about right :) The ''suffocating'' issue with hackamores is that they easily make the horse just break off in the neck and at the same time lock it's jaw = hard to breathe, especially on ponys with thick necks. Try clenching your teeth together and then pull your chin down, like a horse in a high rollkur frame. Same thing can happen with any bit, but a hot horse in a hackamore and with a nervous rider that pulls back, it's bound to happen. Only if the rider lets it tho, like with any bit :)

And the rawhide or bike chains have a more severe and clear contact on the top of the nose.

Anyway, you seem to have most of the info right, it's just that hackamores, also ''soft'' ones, ARE harsher than people thinks. They're effective and nice tools in the right hands and has been a relief to many horses as well - but they're strong, severe bits/bitless and you need to know that when using it. :)
And I've seen too many people changing from a soft, well working snaffle to a hackamore, only because they believe hackamores are gentler.. and then they're overjoyed when the horse bends the neck and breaks of at the third vertebrae instead of working correctly. :3

But hacks are very good in the right hands, and they certainly doesn't break the nose bone or anything if they're placed right, not even the sturdy ones.


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #28 of 69 Old 06-27-2009, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Update:

Well, as I think I already mentioned, we have been practicing making bigger turns, and turning in a circle if he goes too fast. Well, when I was riding him yesterday, I kept more contact at the gait to see if that worked, because he is used to contact when he is gaiting. It actually worked a little better, but I really didn't like the idea of constantly being "in his mouth". I wasn't necesarilly IN/SAWING on his mouth, but his mouth had opened a lil bit (I'm now using a cavison and slobble straps). SO: Should I work on contact or no contact? It is an endles battle of stupidity..He wil simply not catch on! Oh well--I guess that's why horses go into training for 30-90 days--they take a while to catch on..And he is usally a fast learner too..Oh wells..I'll just have to keep working..

I'm thinking about maybe using these [afterward]:
Bitless:
1) Bosal/Mecate
2) Maybe English Hack..Not sure yet..Still looking around..
3) Adjustable Nose Hackamore Bit..?? ^^

Bit:
1) High Port 'C' Bit
2) Simple Eggbut
3) Slow Twist D Ring Snaffle

Any suggestions on bits? Any more hacks?
Thanks:)
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post #29 of 69 Old 06-27-2009, 03:15 PM
Zab
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Avoid any twisted bits unless you need it for safety reasons, even slow twists are much harsher than you first think, since they scratch against the bar of the horses mouth.

I'm not sure what the other bits are, nor the 3d bitless :P

But think through; what do you need the bit to help you with?


Always keep your head up, but be careful to keep your nose at a friendly level.


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post #30 of 69 Old 06-27-2009, 04:24 PM
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I'm so glad other people jumped in to defend the mechanical hackamore! I was really upset when I saw it immediately labeled as potentially dangerous. A nylon halter is potentially dangerous when left on a horse in a turnout and so is just about any piece of equipment used with horses. That said, the mech hack is such good brakes. You don't need to stomp them, just tap. With that said if your horse isn't stopping when you apply enough pressure to constrict their nasal passages to the point of suffocation you are the problem. The only way I could see that happening is a stiff/heavy person continued to pull on the hackamore after the horse had stopped. I have used them in a variety of situations but on just about any horse on the trail. They give me plenty of whoa and just enough steering that they can walk on a long rein for most of the time. There are many things in the horse world that get a bad rap, when really we should be evaluating the people using the devices, not the device itself. A bit is only as harsh as the persons hands, and the horse shouldn't feel a thing until you apply pressure.

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