Dressage Bridles and Flash Nosebands... - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Dressage Bridles and Flash Nosebands...

I was on the Dover website drooling over all of the gorgeous brides on there, and I noticed that almost all of the dressage bridles had flash nosebands. The only ones that didn't were some of the double bridles. So... My question is: Is a flash noseband part of the makeup of the dressage bridles, or is it just the new 'fad', so to speak? One of the horses at my barn has a dressage bridle, and it has the loophole for the flash noseband (my trainer has taken it off as she does all of the flashes LOL). Just was wondering if I could get this cleared up . I'm still learning about different kinds of tack :).

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post #2 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 08:10 PM
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It's a huge fad at the moment.. I hate it :P
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post #3 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 08:19 PM
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The flash noseband is meant to keep the loose ring snaffle in place while the bridle is in use.

But, many out there have used it for another purpose - to clamp their horses mouths shut so they cannot evade the bit - sorta speak.

People say "My horses mouth is gaped open, so I have to keep her mouth shut so that the bit can be effective" which is a load of b/s - the truth of the matter is, that if your horse is gaping their mouth to evade, there are holes missing in the horses training.

Training Scale, Training Scale, Training Scale.

The flash is a quick fix in the jumper ring. Mostly seen is the figure 8 - but again, used to clamp the horses mouth shut so the rider can get better control.


This is what Jim Wofford has to say about the gadget:

Is It Art? Or Violence?
Tips from the FEI rule book on why coercive training equipment doesn't work.

My therapist tells me that if I share my issues with you, I will feel better. So - here goes:

Can anybody around here ride in anything other than a flash noseband that has ben pulled so tight it leaves a depression in the horse's nosewhen the noseband is released?

Do you have ANY idea how much I hate tight nosebands? Doesn't that make you doubt yourself and your training methods just a little?

It should.

I learned a long time ago that art ends where violence begins. I do not see how we can be proud of our art as riders when the way our nosebands are adjusted amounts to daily mini-torture sessions for our horses who we purport to love and care for so much.

When your horse opens his mouth or croses his jaw, do you think, "Uh-oh, I'm going to lose dressage points this weekend, I'd better clamp his mouth shut"? OR do you recognize that your horse is exhibiting a sign of tesntion?

This means his training must continue to emphasize basic, calming work. If he is obviously nervous at the bottom levels of the training scale, you are not going to have much luck with his collected trot.

For those of you who have not been taking notes after your dressage clnics, the Training Scale goes - Rhythm, Looseness, Contact, Impulsion, Straightness, Collection.

Because I was born in a different century, I was raised on Gen. Decarpentry's advice - "Calm, Forward. Strait." I still prefer it because it emphasizes calmness before anything else. It is difficult to teach a horse anything when he is tense, and if you do teach him anything, chances are it will be the wrong thing.

Whichever way you think of it, you have to realize that your horse is not yet calm when he shows resistance in his mouth. If he is not yet calm, then any further demands on him will result in more tension and flawed results.

It is as simple as that. If you want flawed results, go ahead and ask for colection before your horse is relaxed. This is a pretty certain way to produce a horse who needs his mouth strapped shut.

A tight noseband is a vain attempt to disguise the fact that your horse is not ready for the things you are asking him to do.

Where was I berfore I started this rant? Oh yeah, classical equitation. I reread the "Object and General Princibles of Dressage" in the International Equestrain Federation dressage rule book the other day, and was pleased with how meaningful it is, and how clear.

For example, Article 401 of the rule book says, "By virtue of a lively impulsion and suplenes ofthe joints, free from the paralyzing effects of resistance, the horse obeys willingly and without hesitation and responds to the various aids calmly and with precision, displaying a natural and harmonious balance both physically and mentally."

Think about that for a second: When horses stiffen and resist, their musculature becomes paralyzed for the duration of that resistance. If your horse is tense in his topline while jumping, he wil be slow with his knees and hang his legs. If you are an eventer, or want to become one, then you have to realize that dressage permeates everything we do with horses.

Article 401 aditionally states, "The object of dressage is the development of the horse into a happy athlete through harmonious education. As a result, it makes the horse calm, suple, loose, and flexible, but also confident, attentive and keen, thus achieving perfect understanding with his rider."

I give the FEI a lot of unsolicited constructive criticism in this column, most of it well deserved and desperately neeed. However, I would be the first to admit that this is a lovely description of what we are supposed to be looking for in the training of our horses.

Finally, the rule book states that a hors should be allowed to "quietly chew the bit." You often find this expression in the source documents of dressage, and it is always spoken of approvingly as a trait to be developed and encouraged.

There is a very good reson for encouraging this trait in your horse: When he chews quietly on the bit, his mouth is soft and mobile. When his mouth is soft and mobile, it is a good bet that his jaw is relaxed. When his jaw is relaxed, his topline is through and his haunches are active. When your horse exhibits these traits, you are wel on your way to producing the "happy athlete" mentioned in the rule book.

If all this is true, then tell me how in the world your horse is going ot chew softly on anything when your flash is so tight that he can't move his jaw at all?

I laugh to myself when I walk past a competator getting ready to go into the dressage arena at an event and see her groom frantically stuffing sugar cubes into the side of the horse's mouth. At some tim einthe psat that rider has been told that a trained horse should show signs of foam on the sides of his mouth, so she is going to produce that foam by whatever means.

She doesn't even notice that her poor creature has his mouth so firmly clamped shut that he cannot chew anything. If US Dressage Team coach Bengt Ljungquist were alive, he would be spinning in his grave.

If that is your training practice, why not just go ahead and Super Glue your horses's teeth together.....that'll keep him from gaping his mouth, and it will fix that nasty teeth grinding at the same time. Just kidding.....really. Blame it on my therapist - she told me I need to rant more.

Anyway, the best way to get a good score in your dressage test is to give the judge what she wants. Judges are trained to judge according to the rule book, and the rule book says your horse should be free from the paralyzing effect of resistance.

Maybe if you concentrate more on correct training, your scores will go up. It will take a little while longer, but you will get a thrll out of your horse's improved performance. That thrill when you realize your horse is starting to understand is what is what sperarates competitors from horseman.

When we get the feeling that our horse is improving, the color of the ribbon pales in significance.

Competitions are atest of our progress as horsemen, they are not an end in themselves.

However, I don't want you to think that I live and train only in a world of theory. Riding and training horses in the real world is a complicated business, and things can get confusing sometimes. Was it Emerson who said that a sign of maturity is the ability to believe two mutually exclusive things at the same time?

If that is so, then we need to let our thinking about horses mature. What do I mean?

Let me give you an example : I firmly believe that we must train our horses according to classical principles. This means long-term systematic, progressive training that never disturbs the tranquility of the horse. At the same time, I also believ that you can't have good hands if you don't have enough bit.

See what I mean about opposed ideas? Yet both are true, and we need to apply both of them.

The process of training horses in the real world finds us suspended between these two oposed concepts, and we have to continually balance them. If I emphasize classical principles to th exclusion of all else, I may get into a situation wher I endanger my horse and my student, because if your horse is lacking in training, you will need some kind of gadget bit, which wil then be, short-term, enough bit.

At the same time, every time I use a gadget bit or overtighten a noseband, training comes to a stop.

My horse will not truly improve until I do away with gadgets and domination and return to quiet, consistent, patienttraining.

It can be an enormous help to your training once you understand and accept that your horse is an incredibly sensitive creature.

I often wonder why people think they have to kick and pull a horse who can fel a fly land on his neck.

Intsead of worrying about your dressage score, I want you to concentrate on teaching your horse to calmly respond to invisible aids.

Reiner Klimke, the legendary multiple gold medal winer said "My horses are not my slaves, they are my friends." Teach your horse to respond calmly and correctly, and he will be your friend forever.

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post #4 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by anrz View Post
So... My question is: Is a flash noseband part of the makeup of the dressage bridles, or is it just the new 'fad', so to speak?

It is not a fad.

When I started riding dressage it was the regular cavesson noseband or dropped noseband. The dropped was mainly used to keep the bit in place and was used on horses that tended to open their mouths or stick their tongues out. This was like 40-50 years ago.

The flash took over the use of the dropped for much the same purpose and was approved by the dressage bodies governing the tack and equipment rules. I was never a fan of the figure 8 and to me it looks horrible on any horse but that is me.

The advantage of the flash is obvious in that you can take the flash portion off and continue to use it as just a regular noseband. Could not do this with the dropped noseband so like all things, necessity of use guided the resulant change. This to me is NOT a fad as some sort of noseband that was worn below the bit already existed, we just have a more improved version.

I too find it difficult to find a regular noseband without the flash loop so you can either buy it with the loop and have it removed later or have a noseband made for you without it.

Like all things through evolution and need, things simply change.
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post #5 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 09:31 PM
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I see it as a fad, there are not many dressage bridles out there without the flash nowadays, and for most hores they really aren't necessary.
JustDressageIt is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post

The flash took over the use of the dropped for much the same purpose and was approved by the dressage bodies governing the tack and equipment rules.
Are you allowed to use drop nosebands in competitions? You'll have to go slowly with me as I have a lot to learn . Yeah, I know that the actual flash nosebands aren't fads, I meant more as in so many people using them in dressage and many dressage bridles being sold with flashes.

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post #7 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by anrz View Post
Are you allowed to use drop nosebands in competitions? You'll have to go slowly with me as I have a lot to learn . Yeah, I know that the actual flash nosebands aren't fads, I meant more as in so many people using them in dressage and many dressage bridles being sold with flashes.

Interesting question as I haven't seen a dropped noseband in a tack store or on any horse in over 30 years. I believe it is still allowed but you would have to check with the rules book or organization that governs the rules.

Somehow, somewhere, the flash just crept in and the dropped simply fell out of favour.

Now a crank IS a fad and one I see no use for and one that can be seriously misused.
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post #8 of 8 Old 09-28-2009, 10:27 PM
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it is not a fad, well it might be a fad somehwere else in the world but dressage is an old sport that started hundereds of years ago. the flash has been around for as long as many people can remember. horses will get their tongue over the bit or will take the bit in his teeth and run, now u may call that a hole in a horses training, but it definitly is not, if a horse decides to misbehave that is is the horses decision and you can't take that out of them without breaking their personality. the flash isnt a back thing at all, it doesnt hurt them unless used improperly, but then again anything can hjurt a horse if used improperly. :)

If there are no horses in heaven... im not going.
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