I feel like banging my head against a wall. I have been researching and attending clinics on saddle fit - and have found that none of my saddles fit.
My gelding isn't a huge surprise and I think I have found a solution for him.
My mare on the other hand....she is very hard to fit. I already trailered her (twice) to a tack store over 2 hours away. First to get her fit for a saddle, then a year later to confirm the saddle still fit her.
Now, as I have been educating myself more on saddle fit, it has been determined that the brand new saddle I had bought for her, doesn't in fact fit her at all.
So now I am on the hunt for another saddle. She is VERY difficult to fit as she is super wide, has no wither, is a barrel of a horse and has a very short back. So, I am very hesitant to buy a used saddle that I'm pretty certain will not work for her.
Therefore, it has been determined that my best course of action is to have one custom made for her.
There are a couple names that have been thrown around such as Crestridge & Allegany, however I wanted to see if anyone on here has any suggestions or can make any recommendations. There is a more local custom saddle maker that has great reviews - however the cost of his basic saddle is over $4300. <vomit>
I currently ride this mare in a western saddle, however I do want to try conditioning her for long distance riding such as endurance and CTR events. I also do Western Dressage with her, so I would like a saddle that is good for both disciplines - apparently I can ride a western dressage test with an endurance-type saddle as long as it has western fenders.
If anyone has any advise, PLEASE, PLEASE post. I am getting desperate and honestly stressing about this far too much.
I think you’re going to have to find someone who can build custom trees. The flaring of the saddle has to be different for the type of build you describe.
Maybe not worth buying the book but the printed paragraph might help you understand why correct fit is so difficult
There used to be a website for a saddle maker who built saddles on Draft horse trees but I can’t find it.
Debra who owns Crestridge is really good and she is honest but she also has to be able to provide you with a tree that is correctly angled.
If I remember correctly, Allegheny Saddles used to be a spin-off of the old Eli Miller Saddle maker. The owner was a relative of Eli Miller (who passed of old age), and was a premier Plantation saddle maker.
If you want the saddle for barrel racing, as opposed to trail riding, that compounds your problems, IMO. The saddle has to have zero margin for error, in terms of sliding, and you need a cinch to hold it secure that won’t gald the horse. <—-not quite as critical path when trail riding, even if you’re sliding down a river bank, as long as you have good balance
The most critical thing I can offer is to be sure the tree fits. I wonder if looking into dressage saddle makers might be worth your time? Some Dressage horses are Warmbloods and they are huge bodied horses.
I don't know if they do this with Western saddles, but in English saddles you can get something called a hoop tree. Basically if you think of a normal saddle as, when sitting on the horse, having the shape of an upside-down V, a hoop tree has the shape of an upside-down U. I had one for Pony. It didn't end up working out, but that's something you might look into.
Obviously custom is a great idea, but I had a thought too. I wonder if you could find a used Corriente to try on her at a saddle shop or something like that. Our barrel shaped horses fit the Corrientes good, although they are too wide for anything else. A short back also seems to be no problem, as the young fjord can wear one as well.
I had this same problem with my RMHA gelding; short back, forward girth groove, low withers. After buying saddle after saddle (no tack store nearby) and even a custom made one, I had to change to treeless. Only thing that fit.
Still fits, even after he has gained weight!
Some companies make western styled treeless, and they are popular with barrel racers. You might look into treeless styles.
I use a Barefoot Tahoe, as most of the horses I have ridden prefer the Barefoot brand.
Here are some ideas that will make you even more confused. But they are interesting to think about.
Someone once gave me a book about horse communication called What Horses Say by Anna Clemence Mews and Julie Dicker. This is a fascinating thoughtful book written by a horse communicator. Which is ????? who knows, but certainly interesting. Among the many anecdotes is one about a saddle fitter who came out to the barn to fit a certain horse while the horse communicator was present. They went through all the saddles, and the saddle fitter explained why a certain saddle was the right one for that horse. Then the communicator asked the horse which saddle it preferred . . . and it was NOT the recommended saddle. Hmmmm.
Not long after someone gave me the book, I bought an opinionated fractious mare named Isabeau. Isabeau knows exactly what she wants and doesn't want, and you don't need any horse communicator with HER. She tells you loud and clear.
When I put a certain saddle on her, which clearly doesn't fit, she stands quietly to be tacked up and gives the rider a marvelous ride.
When we put a well-fitting saddle on her which she doesn't like, she spins around, kicks out, and rides badly. She used to ride OK in the saddles that she didn't like much, but now that I've had her 6 years, she knows all my saddles and starts spinning and kicking when she sees me holding a saddle she doesn't want. But stands like a rock for the 2 saddles she prefers. Saddle fitters might say they fit (I've tried 3 fitters), but Isabeau says she knows more than they do.
Somebody once told me saddle fit was easy. Nooooo, I don't think so. Here is the saddle that just sits up on her back, digs her shoulders, and clearly doesn't fit. She loves it.
I agree with where knightrider is coming from...
The horse is the one who wears it and carries our bodies on their back. It should be the horse who tell us this works or not...not a saddle fitter or class.
My other thought is...
All these instructional classes, seminars and such...what companies were they affiliated with and what saddle did they recommend out of those who gave financial support of $ paid for a saddle sold...
Sorry, but fitters not only charge the customer they get paid by the companies who products, new or used they push for sale....that is how the game often works.
Ask the hoof, let the horse tell you if happy or not.
Body language, attitude and willingness are to me more a indicator than someone commenting...
And...
Just because they hold a piece of paper saying they are "certified" or whatever...
In a class of how many where did these fitters finish their schooling at and how much exposure to all brands of saddle do they have, do they know every saddle frame, tree and options available besides what they as a fitter can adjust flocking... True of doctors too...they hold a MD/OD degree and licensing... But of a class of 100 doctors receiving their degree where were they in the class and how did they do on practical and book knowledge...top, middle or bottom of the heap. :| They all still hold the same degree, MD...but there is a difference, truly there is in how good they learned the material = your health in this case taken care of & managed well or not so good. :|
I currently ride this mare in a western saddle, however I do want to try conditioning her for long distance riding such as endurance and CTR events. I also do Western Dressage with her, so I would like a saddle that is good for both disciplines - apparently I can ride a western dressage test with an endurance-type saddle as long as it has western fenders.
If anyone has any advise, PLEASE, PLEASE post. I am getting desperate and honestly stressing about this far too much.
Hey! I have a western dressage saddle made to order for my now unrideable Haflinger, who is round round round with no wither whatsoever. It was made by Mike Corcoran, who rides his Haffies in Western Dressage. This is it:
Hey! I have a western dressage saddle made to order for my now unrideable Haflinger, who is round round round with no wither whatsoever. It was made by Mike Corcoran, who rides his Haffies in Western Dressage. This is it:
Thanks for the input everyone..I am not in a huge hurry, but would like to get this sorted before spring when I will really start to condition her. @AnitaAnne, I think you & I have discussed treeless before. I did end up buying a Barefoot Lexington for my gelding, but I"m still not 100% sure I love the treeless; I really want to ride him more in it to see how I feel. However, I think I really want to stick with a treed saddle for this mare. And I've put my Barefoot on her and it just won't work
Oddly enough, I have ridden this mare all summer in this saddle and she has shown no complaint or soreness. Which is odd b/c of the templates I took of her back, this saddle appears to be bridging like crazy. @horselovinguy, there was no affiliation to any saddle maker at the saddle fit clinic I went to. I did have one saddle fitter come out who was a Barefoot rep, so of course was pushing me in that direction. But at the clinic I paid for and attended was not hosted by a specific company. I actually didn't even take my mare to the clinic as the roads were bad for hauling, but did all the exercises afterward on my own time. @CAPtainevil, that saddle is beautiful and looks very similar to the custom saddle that is made up here called easy fit saddles (not to be confused with the ez fit treeless saddle). And yes, these saddles ARE expensive (it is the one that is base $4300 CDN).
Oddly enough, I have ridden this mare all summer in this saddle and she has shown no complaint or soreness. Which is odd b/c of the templates I took of her back, this saddle appears to be bridging like crazy.
Don't forget, when you make a template of the back it is of the standing horse. When ridden, she may well bring her back up and thus eliminate any bridging. Did you check for bridging while riding (e.g. with a white pad on a dirty horse or an impression pad? The latter you can make yourself for cheap and it works really well https://blackestofallcreatures.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/diy-saddle-impression-pad-the-carola-pad/)
As an example: I had a custom saddle made for my mare that is a wonderful fit - but once in a while after riding I had the suspicion that the saddle was bridging... Added some shims to eliminate that and my mare was very unhappy. did some "investigative" riding and figured out that only when she was gaiting faster, she was hollowing her back... Now we are working on bringing her back up while gaiting faster and the bridging problem is solved....
@knightrider, that is too funny about your mare. ANd yes, that saddle doesn't look like it fits at all!! LOL.
That would really suck to pay for a custom saddle and have the horse absolutely detest it.
My mare actually goes very well in the saddle i have for her now...but I can tell it just doesn't fit her right. Because of the way she is built, the saddle interferes with shoulder movement, and even if i place the saddle back, the cinch always pulls it up again. I almost think maybe centre fire rigging might work best for her? Or one of the shoulder relief girths.
It is so hard to tell saddle fit by a picture and that is why I am hesitant to use a saddle maker out of the country - no one is actually physically here to make sure that my measurements for the template are correct and secondly that the saddle actually fits.
It is SO frustrating - and to be honest, the next time I'm buying a horse I will look for one that is easier to fit!
@SwissMiss, no I haven't done the white towel test with her yet, but I do plan on doing that. And you very well could be right, that she lifts her back when working to eliminate that problem. But yes, at a stand still it is definitely bridging on her. She hasn't been ridden hard in a long time (hard enough to get really sweaty), but I do recall quite a few dry spots after some long rides this past summer. @AnitaAnne, I am just using the barefoot pad that came with the saddle. The seat seems comfy enough, but I honestly haven't been able to actually ride in it much to get a real feel for it.
I did have a lesson today and we took some pictures of her bareback to get an idea of how she is built (and where her muscling is un-even). I'll have to post those later....not super related to saddle fit, but interesting all the same.
@SwissMiss, no I haven't done the white towel test with her yet, but I do plan on doing that. And you very well could be right, that she lifts her back when working to eliminate that problem. But yes, at a stand still it is definitely bridging on her. She hasn't been ridden hard in a long time (hard enough to get really sweaty), but I do recall quite a few dry spots after some long rides this past summer.
@AnitaAnne, I am just using the barefoot pad that came with the saddle. The seat seems comfy enough, but I honestly haven't been able to actually ride in it much to get a real feel for it.
I did have a lesson today and we took some pictures of her bareback to get an idea of how she is built (and where her muscling is un-even). I'll have to post those later....not super related to saddle fit, but interesting all the same.
I use the Barefoot pad under lots of my other saddles and find it really helps my horses with spines that stick up. I love the Barefoot pad. My Chorro loves the Barefoot saddle too.
A search for Haflinger saddles brings up some extra wide tree, short-back-friendly western saddles. Just one page of them here, but googling "Haflinger saddle" will bring up a lot more:
Finally have a chance to upload the photos we took of her the other day - without her saddle. Just to show how she is built.
I plan to take the photo of her topline again in about a month - to see if the ground work exercises we have been doing are helping to even her out a bit. Will be interesting to see if there is much change. Granted, she probably needs to be seen by a chiro, but I wait until spring for that once the snow/ice is gone.
What about a "half breed patriot" and since he makes his own trees just ask him to make you a tree for it that will fit the wide round back of that horse? I think they only run about $2,600 or so.
Wow. Nice back for a comfortable ride, but no length and what a dip!
Will have a hard time getting a western saddle to fit, but would definitely look at Haffie trees and Arabian trees. Amazing there are not Morgan trees.
When you take the repeated photos, please take you standing behind her so the camera is back height shooting forward...
I want to see the "crease" of the spine, the rounded ribs, the wither and mane and shoulders...
And make sure you get good side shots of her body with leg stance and hoof not buried in arena dirt...
Will she have her feet done soon and will the next set of pictures be taken about the same time in the farrier scheduling as these were?
I think I see a few things that would contribute to saddle fit issues...wondering if I'm right or out in left field with my thoughts...
Follow-up pictures will tell the tale.
:runninghorse2:...
@AndyTheCornbread, that is a nice saddle!! I actually emailed Len regarding a couple older orthoflex saddles I found online. But I have decided to stop buying online as I keep getting saddles that don't fit I will have to look into that saddle with a custom tree as an option for her.
Yes, she is a horse that would be great to ride bareback. Sadly, I can't compete without a saddle...LOL. @horselovinguy, I'll try to take a good picture from her behind this weekend. She has quite the crease.....as someone once said, it was a good water collector. Granted, she is a bit out of shape...hahaha.
Aside from trying to find a tree that would work for her, she is incredibly wide in the shoulders, so finding something that doesn't pinch is tricky. In addition, her back is so short that it is very difficult to find something that doesn't interfere with shoulder movement. Not to mention the wicked rock to her back - I was hoping she would even out a bit, but she is still very butt high. And now that she is 6 I think this is what i have to work with.
I did look at a couple arabian saddle company saddles; good for a short back, but much too narrow in the gullet.
I just sent Len a message with some photos...will see what he comes back with. Even with converting to CDN dollars, that is still much cheaper than the custom maker up here I have been in touch with.
I have heard great reviews on the original ortho-flex saddles that Len used to build.
He was the only saddle maker I could find who made his own trees so he can customize the saddle for both rider and horse. All my horses are easy to fit saddle wise. Typical quarter horse build on all of them but getting a saddle that works for the nerve damage I have in my legs and still having it fit my horses was hard. He was actually the only one I could find who builds his own trees and was willing to work with me to get a design that would allow me to spend more time in the saddle without my leg going dead. Mine is a heavily modified Bull Derm Roper, this is the stock model before my needed modifications: https://len-browns-innovations.myshopify.com/products/bull-derm-roper
Also remember the listed prices are the 50% deposit price, so double it for actual 100% cost. So for that saddle I linked for you earlier the total USD price is $2,590 and the total CAD would be $3,365.
Just an idea - have you tried a gaited horse saddle? A friend has Gaited Rocky Mountain Horses that are built very much like that and all wear gaited saddles. More shoulder room and rigged to not slide up.
@AndyTheCornbread, thanks for the tip. Yes, I was browsing his website and made sure to convert the full price into CDN funds. Still a bit cheaper than the saddle maker down here (by about $1K). @Smartee Pants, I am open to any type of saddle that will work for her. And I think the gaited saddles might allow her the shoulder freedom she needs as well. I just think that due to the rock in her back that a custom saddle might be the only option for us that will work all around
@AndyTheCornbread - are you familiar with those saddles/saddle maker?? There was a wade on that website that I liked and was thinking about contacting them... I have an older Dale Chavez that I love but it doesn't fit my younger horse... Just curious...
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