Tom Thumbs? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-05-2009, 10:05 PM
 
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It's not like, horrible on the mouth of the horse it just is horrible for training like, it just has no leverage and it's positively sucky. The bit, though, is only as harsh as the hands it's in.
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post #12 of 20 Old 09-06-2009, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadHenry09 View Post
I would like some more info on the black training snaffle as I think this may be a good choice for switching from a snaffle to a shanked bit. Do you need a curb strap for this and can you show in it? thanks
Yes, you do need a curb strap, on the top ring. I use just a strap, not a chain.

For showing, you'd need to check your rule books. The shanks are really short, about 3-3.5". I know some rule books state that shanks must be 5" or longer, but not longer than 7".

It's a good training/transition bit. I bet it would work well for speed horses that are ridden two handed.
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-06-2009, 08:26 AM
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RadHenry, the black bit is typically refereed to as an Argentine bit because the teardrop shape of the shank - most are short shanked as well. As L2R said, it needs a curb strap or chain like any leverage bit. It makes a good transition bit from snaffle to leverage becasue of it's design and short shanks.

(Just as a note, an original Argentine bit has a very swept back shank with a loose ring on the end to attach the reins)

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just explaining why I'm right.

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post #14 of 20 Old 09-07-2009, 05:08 PM
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The market is saturated with everybody and their brothers' bit designs that there are tons more alternatives that are even WAY more effective AND less harsh/confusing on the horse than the TT and that can cause less physical harm.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but the bit posted as a European Tom Thumb is actually a full-cheek snaffle. The European TT is a short shank leverage bit that's usually used as part of a double bridle. If you order a TT in Europe, though and you don't tell them that you want it as a single, you'll get something like a Tom Thumb Pehlam. This is a European single TT. The difference is the shorter, more tipped back shank with a little bit of gag movement in the bit to lift the horse's head.



I would still try very hard not to direct rein in any bit that has shanks. When you pull on the rein on a shank bit, the tight side PUSHES the horse's head into a turn. So if you're wanting to turn the horse to the left and you pull on the left rein, the bit is actually pushing his cheek to the right (that's why neckreining works so well in a leverage bit...the rein tightens on the opposite side of the turn and the horse turns away from the tight rein). In a true snaffle, you pull the left rein and the bit pulls through the horse's mouth to the other side. It PULLS his head into the turn from the outside corner, opposite the tight rein. That's why the horse turns TOWARDS the tight rein in a snaffle...the pressure is on the far side of his mouth pulling it inward.

The dogbone in the middle on the black snaffle does make things a little less confusing, but instead of direct reining, if you're transitioning don't pull and hold like you would in a regular snaffle...I'd just give him a little tug, just enough to get the attention on the corner of his mouth and get him listening in that direction and then try the neckrein in that direction.

The black bit also has fixed shanks, unlike the TT. The TTs shanks tip AND swivel, and that really hurts the horse and adds to the confusion. I LOVE the kind of shanks on the black bit there...they only swivel out and don't wind up under the horse's jaw. When they swivel out like that, it allows you to help your horse move laterally, which you don't get in a completely fixed-shank curb. It's kinda like you're opening a door on one side of the horse's mouth when you release pressure from the rein on that side.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-07-2009, 05:15 PM
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This will tell you all you need to know . . .

Today's Horse - The Trouble with Tom Thumb

I personally hate it and so does my horse.
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-07-2009, 05:15 PM
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I like the Imus Comfort Bits. I wish they had them a long time ago when i had to do a lot more breaking and training! lol You might be able to even find one for less on Ebay. One feature that is really nice on these is the mouthpiece. It's neither completely solid, but it's not exactly broken, either, which makes it good for transitioning.

Imus Training Transition Bit
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post #17 of 20 Old 09-07-2009, 05:18 PM
 
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Shoot, I like a bosal!
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-07-2009, 05:49 PM
 
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See my Tom Thumb thread in 'Articles'. There is a great link I posted that might show you just HOW horrible they are.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-08-2009, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Valence View Post
I'm not trying to be difficult, but the bit posted as a European Tom Thumb is actually a full-cheek snaffle. The European TT is a short shank leverage bit that's usually used as part of a double bridle. If you order a TT in Europe, though and you don't tell them that you want it as a single, you'll get something like a Tom Thumb Pehlam. This is a European single TT. The difference is the shorter, more tipped back shank with a little bit of gag movement in the bit to lift the horse's head.
The bit you posted above is listed under "American bits".
Sweet Iron Copper Tom Thumb, tom thumb bit

A Tom Thumb pelham or weymouth has more to do the size/style of the shanks.

THIS is what is a "traditional" Tom Thumb (snaffle) is in most all of the UK or Aus tack web sites I have gone to, and UK and Aus riders I have talked with online.
Korsteel Tom Thumb Bit - Surrey Equestrian
Buttons Saddlery - Equestrian & Country Clothing - Shopping Area
Country Supplies | Cottage Craft Tom Thumb Full Cheek Snaffle - 1062 | Ariat Apparel
Korsteel Tom Thumb



It's also known as a "Fulmer Bit". It seems that some of the European saddlery shops are switching to the "Fulmer" name now, possibly because of US Tom Thumb bits are becoming more popular over there.
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post #20 of 20 Old 09-08-2009, 12:23 AM
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A full cheek snaffle has longer bars, and the bars need to (should) be held to the cheeck pieces by keepers. A tom thumb as I know it (Australian) is just a regular snaffle with bars to prevent it pulling through the horses mouth.

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