Advice needed over farrier and new horse - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 49 Old 06-27-2013, 09:50 PM
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I still fail to see how this was a correction at all. if a horse is jigging no amount of hitting will solve that. Moving the horse's feet would have corrected that more appropriatly IMOP.

Now if the horse is biting you, an elbow is much more effective. A metal tool IS NOT.

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post #32 of 49 Old 06-27-2013, 09:50 PM
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the op doesn't mention how long the farrier had to deal with dink before the farrier became frustrated... For all we know he was working on this horse for half an hour. Yes I would probably find a new farrier if the guy started with excessive force off the bat- but we don't know if that happened (and judging by the abuse excuse the op gives for her horses behavior, im gonna go out on a limb and say it wasn't a right away thing.)

All you authority calling, farrier firing, call the vet cause your horse has busted ribs people are ASSUMING he beat the ever loving crum out of this horse. I seriously doubt it.
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post #33 of 49 Old 06-27-2013, 10:07 PM
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Peppersgirl, I feel as though it's better to send the message that it isn't okay rather than have someone interpret it as "okay" and allow someone to mishandle their horse.

As she is new at this, it's really hard to dissertain what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed.

Only once you know what shouldn't be allowed, can you go back and become a little less black and white about it.

I have more experience as a horse owner so I know what is okay and what is not okay and needs to be corrected with X amount of firmness. In time the OP will understand too.

But what I don't think we as horse owners should allow is someone new to think that this is acceptable behavior of a professional. Because that's how abuse starts: Ignorance.

Now wasn't that a fun tangent.. haha
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post #34 of 49 Old 06-27-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppersgirl View Post
the op doesn't mention how long the farrier had to deal with dink before the farrier became frustrated... For all we know he was working on this horse for half an hour. Yes I would probably find a new farrier if the guy started with excessive force off the bat- but we don't know if that happened (and judging by the abuse excuse the op gives for her horses behavior, im gonna go out on a limb and say it wasn't a right away thing.)

All you authority calling, farrier firing, call the vet cause your horse has busted ribs people are ASSUMING he beat the ever loving crum out of this horse. I seriously doubt it.
We only know what the OP told us, nobody assumed anything and neither should you. We 'know' the farrier was impatient from the start, we 'know' he hit the horse repeatedly and we 'know' he did so out of anger. IF all of those factors are true (I'm not doubting you, OP) it was NOT an appropriate correction.

'Abuse' isn't an excuse, you don't know the horse wasn't abused... so why assume right off the bat that OP is doing nothing but making excuses...?
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post #35 of 49 Old 06-27-2013, 10:22 PM
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i am very thankful i have a great farrier, he use to be a showjumper, but with kids, he gave up show jumping and sold his horses,due to the expence of living , kids etc and chose to do farrier work

i am also thankful miover stands well for him, sometimes, he doesnt use the stand he just puts his hoofs on his lap, miover tends to start walking when he puts his hoof down thinking he is finished, well hoping LOL

the farriar just backs him up with a tug of the lead rope and a firm AHHH, very rarly he needs to do that, but he has never raised or cussed at any of the horses, or smacked them, he also encourages the handler to rub the horses neck and talk to them

he did miovers feet while he was racing, so i am glad the same person has done his feet the whole time..
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post #36 of 49 Old 06-27-2013, 10:23 PM
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I've had this same exact experience with my last farrier and horse, Eddie. The farrier, I learned later, really didn't know what he was doing and I was a new inexperienced owner so I was on a huge learning curve. The farrier quicked Eddie and since then Eddie is a monster about getting his feet done. The last time the farrier did his feet, the farrier beat Eddie out of frustration twice on his hips and left large bumps. I immediately fired the farrier and threw him out. I had had enough. Through crazy amount of searching, I found my current farrier who has the most patience of anyone I know. I sold Eddie last year, and his new owner drugs him.

A few tricks I've learned with all the SCS horses I've dealt with who can't stand completely still are, either schedule the appointment close to dinner so I can slowly handfeed their dinner and a Likit. The Lickit is yummy and it takes forever for them to finish one.

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post #37 of 49 Old 06-27-2013, 11:52 PM
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I've had horses for 20+ years, in two different countries, and every farrier I have ever known will whack a horse that needs it with either their hand, or whatever tool is in their hand.
I am fine with that, The owner should correct the horse, if they don't, then 'oh well' it will be done in the manner seen fit by the person at risk.
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post #38 of 49 Old 06-28-2013, 07:19 AM
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I understand whacking to get the horse's attention and reprimanding a bad action with a cool head. What I DO NOT condone is whacking a horse several times because you got frustrated with a NEW horse owner's horse who hasn't learned manners.

I agree with what the one farrier mentioned earlier did and asked the owner to do some basic ground work with the horse for a week or so then come back out and give it another go. Tell the owner to either find a reputable trainer to help or do serious research online to see what ground work to do.

The difference between acceptable and unacceptable farrier behavior is attitude. You swing that hammer with a cool head to reprimand then you are likely to land it in a manner which teaches the horse. You swing out of anger and frustration then you can easily make a wild swing landing it just awkward enough to do damage.
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post #39 of 49 Old 06-28-2013, 08:10 PM
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I would definitely find another farrier. I understand where these other people are coming from saying that the farrier was at risk and he needed to correct the horse for safety. My farrier does this sometimes because my guy has been known to fall asleep and tip into the farrier... but he does this by shanking his lead rope (no chain on it) to wake him up and to tell him to back off and out of his space. I get kind of twitchy when he does it because I wouldn't do it but I don't say anything because I see that it is necessary for his safety. However if he ever used a hammer I would throw him out of the barn.
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post #40 of 49 Old 06-28-2013, 09:16 PM
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I'm actually more comfortable with my farrier correcting an obnoxious horse because he knows exactly when he needs to reprimand and when he needs to just hold what he's got for a minute until the horse calms down. He can feel exactly what the horse is doing, I can't so I can't be sure exactly when or how much correction is needed.

For an example, I had my farrier come over and put shoes on a customer horse about a week ago. I was told that the horse would stand for the farrier, but the owner failed to mention that the horse would only stand when he felt like it. If he didn't feel like standing calmly, he would lean and pull and "walk" the farrier all over the place. This horse wasn't afraid and trying to get away, he was spoiled and being obnoxious. A couple of firm jabs to the ribs from the farrier with the handles of his nippers and the horse straightened right up and stood still for the other 3 feet.

HOWEVER, a farrier just whacking the crap out of an already wary/frightened horse repeatedly the very first time he works on him is not okay.

I'm a firm believer that is one of the biggest reasons why a good farrier is hard to find. Not only do they need to be hoof experts, but they also need to be horsemen. They need to be able to recognize when a horse is frightened and needs a bit of calm and gentle handling to prepare him and they also need to be able to recognize when a horse has been spoiled and needs to be corrected.

OP, I would be looking for a different farrier immediately. The fact that this guy lost his cool is the biggest red flag for me. Getting angry around any horse will never accomplish anything except ruining the horse and getting someone hurt. Talk with your friend and find out if their farrier is willing to come help you out. In the meantime, work with your horse...a LOT. Get him more comfortable with his feet being handled a bit roughly. Do not pussy-foot around him because that's not going to help him at all. Pick them up and hold them the same way a farrier would...not only picking them up to see the bottom as you would to pick the feet out. Like this




But you also need to pick them up the way a farrier would to finish the job, like this





Also, twist and pull around on his feet, bang on them with a metal tool, reach up and touch him all over with a free hand whenever you've got a foot picked up so that he gets comfortable having his shoulder/belly/hip touched when someone is underneath him.

Last edited by smrobs; 06-28-2013 at 09:18 PM.
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