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post #21 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 02:13 PM
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Good point on things taking time, MLS. And in a mostly suburban community making it OK to bury livestock when it is not even OK to bury your dog is not likely to happen now matter how hard people work to get it changed.
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post #22 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 04:52 PM
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I agree completely. These days, all small breeders and "hobby" breeders are considered "backyard breeders", who produce nothing but crazy, unhealthy animals. I've heard people say they'd rather buy from a petstore than get a "backyard breeder". People these days have god-like standards for their breeders; both parents MUST be 100% health checked, registered, well-trained and excelling in either show or some sort of field; they must have perfect genetic backrounds; the young must be kept a set amount of time, 100% vet checked, and the breeder must have a list of people clammering for the young before it is even born.
That's ideal, yes. And I'm not going to say health, temperment, etc. are not important; but, if you don't fit the bill 100%, that doesn't mean you're a crazed backyard breeding hoarder.

Right now, I own two mares and two studs; I'd never be stupid enough to let them run together, without the intention of breeding them. My donkey has goats, the young stud will stay with the geldings. If I plan to breed them, it won't be to my mares; in fact, I only keep them intact because I've got friends who are interested in using them for stud later; not so they can sell the resulting young, but so they can keep whatever they get.

Some people take it way to far, too. A few years back, I bred mice to give to my friend, who had a snake. You know, I'm sure, what happened to them. I got surplus, to I posted them on Craigslist, and within an hour, I'd gotten hate mail for BYB mice without having homes lined up.... wait, what. Really? Mice?
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post #23 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind View Post
I am in no way ignorant of guns and it gets annoying that you dissect every post I make just so you can be sure to disagree with me.
To be quite honest I really don't care who posted a comment when I reply to it. I give my honest opinion and I try not to pick on anyone although some make it really hard not to. If we are on opposite sides of some issues then so be it. I'm okay with that and I hope you don't take it personally. I sure try not to. Debate is a healthy thing and it doesn't always have to end with one person winning. If during the course of a debate you gain some insight into how others feel then it was a worthy use of the time regardless of rather someone changed or not.

There's nothing like the Rockies in the springtime... Nothing like the freedom in the air... And there ain't nothing better than draggin calves to the fire and there's nothing like the smell of burning hair. -Brenn Hill
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post #24 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 07:05 PM
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i very much agree with you kevin you started a great thread i dont believe back yard breeders are bad or irrisponsible i jus think we as a whole community need to pull together and get people to realize the benifits of slaughter its a great protected reasonable responsible outlet of unwanted or homeless horses but if slaughter doesnt reopen in this country we need to come up with another way to despose of these animals,and im not in favor of euthinasia and rendering plant to be the sole provider of this and im also not in favor of regerasting stallions and mare but agian if we dont do something to decrease numbers then we will always have these problems.

i dont mean to step on toes when i say dont breed, its your choice and i am 100 percent for that.
i just wish more people would be more willing to go in other directions

Don't breed, buy. Don't buy, adopt.
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post #25 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Broski1984 View Post
A few years back, I bred mice to give to my friend, who had a snake. You know, I'm sure, what happened to them. I got surplus, to I posted them on Craigslist, and within an hour, I'd gotten hate mail for BYB mice without having homes lined up.... wait, what. Really? Mice?
Are you kidding me? some people do take it too far. Are they not aware that countless numbers of rodents are sold from PET shops as food every day?

We bred rats for our snakes and I will say that they had it very good up until it was the snakes' dinner time. Fresh bedding, food and water at all times. Plus I often snuck then goodies (what can I say, I was a little girl at the time and they were pretty darn cute)!

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post #26 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 07:46 PM
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I am fine with responsible breeding. If someone wants to breed their mare that is a very nice little trail horse with a good temperment and solid conformation to the stud down the road who is a nice little ranch horse with a good temperment and solid conformation, then power to them. It's people that breed ewe necked, long backed, severly cow-hocked stud with too long pasterns and a crappy temperment to any mare that will allow him to mount just because he is a cremello that I have a problem with. That is what I consider a backyard breeder, not someone who raises a few nice foals out of their nice stock that happens to live in the back yard. I consider those people small breeders. I do agree though that the slaughter houses need to be re-opened. There needs to be a place for those unwanted, unusable horses of the world to go rather than just be left to starve in a pasture by themselves or hauled to sale after sale after sale. There are some nice looking 3 and 4 year old horses out there that no matter how much training or handling or 'here let me wave my stick and wiggle the lead rope' they get, they will never be useable. Not everyone has the space or the means to house 12 or 15 horses that are too wild to be handled or too crippled to be used.
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post #27 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 08:09 PM
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The reason the horse market is in the toilet is because there is no outlet for unwanted or unusable horses as a result of the government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.
I agree in general with your post about breeding, but at least around here, the horse market has been basically in the dumps since 9/11/2001, and it has nothing to do with unwanted/unusable horses. People starting hanging on to their money after that, and then the economy and unemployment took over. In the last few years, none of the long time horse folks that I know have bred their mares unless they already had a buyer, have slowly reduced their stock through sales, are hanging on to their good lesson horses (the only part of the business that is still doing fairly well), and keeping their good young prospects for better times.

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post #28 of 30 Old 06-03-2010, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Broski1984 View Post
I agree completely. These days, all small breeders and "hobby" breeders are considered "backyard breeders", who produce nothing but crazy, unhealthy animals. I've heard people say they'd rather buy from a petstore than get a "backyard breeder". People these days have god-like standards for their breeders; both parents MUST be 100% health checked, registered, well-trained and excelling in either show or some sort of field; they must have perfect genetic backrounds; the young must be kept a set amount of time, 100% vet checked, and the breeder must have a list of people clammering for the young before it is even born.
That's ideal, yes. And I'm not going to say health, temperment, etc. are not important; but, if you don't fit the bill 100%, that doesn't mean you're a crazed backyard breeding hoarder.

Right now, I own two mares and two studs; I'd never be stupid enough to let them run together, without the intention of breeding them. My donkey has goats, the young stud will stay with the geldings. If I plan to breed them, it won't be to my mares; in fact, I only keep them intact because I've got friends who are interested in using them for stud later; not so they can sell the resulting young, but so they can keep whatever they get.

Some people take it way to far, too. A few years back, I bred mice to give to my friend, who had a snake. You know, I'm sure, what happened to them. I got surplus, to I posted them on Craigslist, and within an hour, I'd gotten hate mail for BYB mice without having homes lined up.... wait, what. Really? Mice?
Whoa!!! Unless I miss understood you I am greatly offended. I have three mares as of right now. All my mares are very well bred. I don't have many horses so yes I am a small breeder, NOT and irresponsible BYB. I have many friends that are small breeders and sell very well show horses that go national. Just because you are a small breeder, doesn't mean you have junk. Just one of my mares is worth $20,000 or more. She has siblings worth over ten times that much and sell for that over seas. She comes from good stock. Her sire is Botswana. Look him up and tell me if I have junk.

Let me help you

http://www.talariafarms.com/stallions_botswana.asp

Erin

Last edited by LLArabians; 06-03-2010 at 09:08 PM.
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post #29 of 30 Old 06-04-2010, 02:48 AM
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Whoa!!! Unless I miss understood you I am greatly offended. I have three mares as of right now. All my mares are very well bred. I don't have many horses so yes I am a small breeder, NOT and irresponsible BYB. I have many friends that are small breeders and sell very well show horses that go national. Just because you are a small breeder, doesn't mean you have junk. Just one of my mares is worth $20,000 or more. She has siblings worth over ten times that much and sell for that over seas. She comes from good stock. Her sire is Botswana. Look him up and tell me if I have junk.

Let me help you

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Erin
You misunderstood me, and I apologize. I know great animals come from small farms, and I never said they didn't. Hell, I've known of more show-winning, sport-winning animals coming from little breeders than big ones, where the animals get lost in the mess.

I probably should've worded my post better. I approve of "small" breeders! I think it's great, and I do it myself (just not with horses; I do NOT know enough about them to try that yet!).

I was saying that a lot of people these days think poorly of small breeders, and think only crazed, half-breed, deformed animals come from them; this is not true.

Quote:
I've heard people say they'd rather buy from a petstore than get a "backyard breeder".
Here, I was not reffering to logical people. I'd rather buy from a small breeder (even if it WASN'T one of the good ones), than a petstore. I did, however, have a friend that when given the choice between a small breeder and a store, chose the store. No, I'm not kidding.

Later on, I was saying people expect too much from any breeder. No, you shouldn't breed for fun, or for the cute babies, or without expecting costly vet bills and the possibility of heartache. On the last forum I went to (which I left, because of the quality of the posters; none of them believed in disciplin, or at-home treatments, or even possibly breeding; they were a small step down from crazed PETA members), people were being scolded for breeding animals if both parents weren't registered, thoroughly vet checked (every possible test run, every genetic disorder checked for), and the person didn't already have a purcheaser lined up and an idea of what to do with the young (as in, a show plan).

Quote:
Right now, I own two mares and two studs; I'd never be stupid enough to let them run together, without the intention of breeding them. My donkey has goats, the young stud will stay with the geldings. If I plan to breed them, it won't be to my mares; in fact, I only keep them intact because I've got friends who are interested in using them for stud later; not so they can sell the resulting young, but so they can keep whatever they get.
I didn't mean this rudely. I meant this in response to another poster, whom I should've quoted; they said something along the lines of many BYBs just letting stallions run with mares. I didn't mean this rudely; I simply was saying, I don't approve of just throwing animals together and seeing what happens.

Again, I'm sorry if I seemed rude. I didn't mean to, and I do not disapprove of small-scale breeders in the least.
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post #30 of 30 Old 06-04-2010, 10:19 PM
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OK Thank you for clarifying. Sorry I got so uptight about it. <:)

Erin
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