BLM's Wild Horses mtg in Boise, Idaho - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
View Poll Results: Should Wild Mares be Darted?
With PZP Contraceptive 2 66.67%
With GnRH Sterilization 1 33.33%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

 148Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 82 Old 07-09-2019, 11:29 PM
Showing
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: southern Arizona
Posts: 11,761
• Horses: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriF View Post
I vote re introduction of mountain lion and wolves to the numbers that were here 150 years ago
Predators need a larger range than their prey. To control them via natural predators, we'd have to get back to the human population of 1860, somewhere around 40 million versus over 310 million. The trouble is finding 270 million volunteers to leave! Heck, Arizona's population has added over 1 million/decade for the last 50 years. I remember - and MISS - the Arizona of 1975 - about 2.2 million versus over 7 million today. Not sure where I can find 5 million Arizonans who want to leave.

In the Manti Mountains of Utah, predators have made a comeback. When I worked there in 1980, there were no bears and only rumors of a cougar somewhere. Now they have a number of both. A friend lost more sheep to bears than to coyotes recently, and had a couple of horses jumped by a cougar.

But in truth? A 30-06 is a more humane killer than a cougar, and we can control how many hunters are allowed year by year. We have managed deer, elk and antelope for a LONG time with hunting permits. I don't see why horses are too special to be managed like any other form of wildlife. If they are WILD horses, lets manage them like WILD life.

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
bsms is online now  
post #22 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 01:42 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,129
• Horses: 3
A bullet is a lot more humane than death by cougar, wolf, or bear. Those are rarely quick, nor painless. I'd rather a horse go with a bullet to the head than die agonizingly while being disemboweled and eaten alive...

A friend caught video of a steer of theirs taken down by wolves on a game cam... the steer bellowed and kicked for 20 minutes while the wolves ate on him before expiring. I would not wish that on anyone, especially a horse!
SilverMaple is offline  
post #23 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 06:28 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Northern Florida
Posts: 4,490
• Horses: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms View Post
Predators need a larger range than their prey. To control them via natural predators, we'd have to get back to the human population of 1860, somewhere around 40 million versus over 310 million. The trouble is finding 270 million volunteers to leave! Heck, Arizona's population has added over 1 million/decade for the last 50 years. I remember - and MISS - the Arizona of 1975 - about 2.2 million versus over 7 million today. Not sure where I can find 5 million Arizonans who want to leave.

In the Manti Mountains of Utah, predators have made a comeback. When I worked there in 1980, there were no bears and only rumors of a cougar somewhere. Now they have a number of both. A friend lost more sheep to bears than to coyotes recently, and had a couple of horses jumped by a cougar.

But in truth? A 30-06 is a more humane killer than a cougar, and we can control how many hunters are allowed year by year. We have managed deer, elk and antelope for a LONG time with hunting permits. I don't see why horses are too special to be managed like any other form of wildlife. If they are WILD horses, lets manage them like WILD life.

If people want to hunt horse the same way as elk, deer, moose or any other wild game for that matter, I would be all over that. With permits, regulations so they are not over hunted and these regulations enforced. I guess it would have to be figured out how to determine my best riding horse Snowball from a wild animal. There are many people out there who wouldn't care about the difference. And of course there would be the poachers.
As it stands right now, there are hunting seasons that correlate with the breeding and birthing seasons of wild game. Being as horses gestation period is 11 months, it would probably be hard to not hunt down a pregnant mare unless mares were off limits.

What I am not for is the governments botched job of supposedly being these animals stewards. We are all well aware that what they are doing is not working. Still, I don't think that sending them to slaughter is the answer. It's not that they would be killed and eaten that bothers me. It's the process that bothers me. Animals that are sent to slaughter are being handled by people who could care less about anything other than their bottom dollar which directly leads to the animals mass suffering. The 30-06 doesn't bother me. The starvation, dehydration, stress, fatigue to the point that they are falling down, and abusive handling bothers me.

I also believe that if laws were set to allow the government to legally sell wild horses to people who would in turn sell for slaughter, they would just turn into another money making machine until they become no more. I say 'legally sell' because this is happening already with a blind eye to what is going on. Our government is breaking it's own laws but don't let you or I go out and shoot one to feed our family or catch one to use as a riding horse unless you would like to go to jail and pay hefty fines.

As far as any horses being called domestic animals, I disagree. In one generation of no handling by humans and you have a wild animal. Same thing with cats that we call domestic. Both of these species have not changed very much, especially their brains and how they operate. Dogs on the other hand, who humans have changed dramatically, I would call domestic.

As far as shooting a horse being more humane than being killed by a cougar, I don't really care. That is nature and if the horses are going to be left wild then that is part of it just like any other wild animal. The bottom line is that we started the problem of over population long before these animals were protected by eliminating so many predators.

There will be only one of you for all time. Fearlessly be yourself.
Coffee is my spirit animal
LoriF is offline  
post #24 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 06:32 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Northern Florida
Posts: 4,490
• Horses: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMaple View Post
A bullet is a lot more humane than death by cougar, wolf, or bear. Those are rarely quick, nor painless. I'd rather a horse go with a bullet to the head than die agonizingly while being disemboweled and eaten alive...

A friend caught video of a steer of theirs taken down by wolves on a game cam... the steer bellowed and kicked for 20 minutes while the wolves ate on him before expiring. I would not wish that on anyone, especially a horse!

This happens everyday to prey animals. Predators have to eat too. So do you suggest that we eliminate all predators because you don't want to see anything die that way?

Being shot may be a lot quicker and easier than the 20 minutes that it takes a predator to kill a prey animal. That 20 minutes is better than the hours and days of suffering that would come with sending and processing horses to slaughter. Horses would not be shot on site unless they are going to be left there to senselessly rot. I don't see the point in that either.

All of us are going to die some way or another and for the most part, we don't have much say as to how that will happen. I personally would rather suffer 5 or 10 minutes of heart attack than weeks and months of illness.

I watched a video of a pod of orcas working to bring down a humpback whale cow and calf. People in a fishing boat filmed almost the whole thing. After about six hours, the cow and calf managed to escape the the pod and everyone was cheering. Honestly, I was glad to see them get away, but I also felt bad for the orcas. They worked so hard to come up with nothing but empty stomachs. I wondered why no one felt bad for them. I would feel bad for me if I worked so hard to eat and ended up with nothing.
AnitaAnne likes this.

There will be only one of you for all time. Fearlessly be yourself.
Coffee is my spirit animal

Last edited by LoriF; 07-10-2019 at 06:50 AM.
LoriF is offline  
post #25 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 08:19 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Western Massachusetts
Posts: 5,827
• Horses: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildAbtHorses View Post
50,000 horses and burros in overcrowded holding pens isn't an ideal life but do they deserve to go to the slaughterhouse because of our mismanagement? Meat to food banks? Do humans eat horse meat?
They surely do eat horsemeat. All over the world except here. Horses have always been eaten. I'm totally behind eating excess horses.

In ecological reality, "deserving" is not a concept. Acting like that's not true -- just for the ones you happen to love personally -- is understandable but irrational, and clearly it is having big ugly consequences for un-owned horses in the USA.
Knave and Kaifyre like this.

Short horse lover
Avna is online now  
post #26 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 09:38 AM
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CT USA an English transplant
Posts: 32,600
• Horses: 3
I’m not aware that it’s illegal to eat horse meat in the US, it isn’t illegal to slaughter them either, or to shoot them.
The issue is the protection given to mustangs and the lack of regulated slaughter houses in the US that can take horses.
The latter needs to be addressed first
If the protection given to mustangs is then lifted they can be routinely rounded up and selectively slaughtered.
That means that the unhealthy ones are removed and the carcasses used according to assessment and excess healthy ones go for the food chain.
There’s no need to have them hunted by shooting parties, they’d be treated more like free range cattle
There would be no ‘food for the needy’ in this though. Horse meat that’s good quality sells for too much money in other parts of the world and is always in demand.

That aside
Those options aren’t currently on offer but those in the OP’s poll appear to be so maybe vote on one or other because some action is better than no action at all
bsms and WildAbtHorses like this.

Just winging it is not a plan
jaydee is offline  
post #27 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
Foal
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: By Cowtown NJ (kinda)
Posts: 147
• Horses: 0
Excess Wild Horses

I created a new post with a new questionnaire:

https://www.horseforum.com/horse-tal...ns-blm-805581/

The hard sad truth of the situation.
WildAbtHorses is offline  
post #28 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 10:10 AM
Showing
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: southern Arizona
Posts: 11,761
• Horses: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriF View Post
This happens everyday to prey animals. Predators have to eat too. So do you suggest that we eliminate all predators because you don't want to see anything die that way?...
I don't object to nature operating as nature. It is what is. I have no vote. Nature doesn't ask me.

There aren't many predators capable of controlling a wild horse population. It requires an apex predator, and the only apex predator capable of discerning between a wild horse population and domestic one is man.

It would require a change to the law. Once changed (over the bitter objections of various mustang groups), you would control the population the same way we do with elk. You distinguish between horses with owners and those without by defining WHERE the hunting takes place. You don't need meat inspectors anymore than you need meat inspectors for deer. I used to work deer check stations in my youth. The same sort of thing could be done with horses.

The problem is entirely political - all the city folks who adore mustangs in movies and cartoons. There would be an enormous outcry against a horse hunting season. I doubt it could pass. Unless things get so bad folks will admit we need to take action.

Riders ask "How?" Horsemen ask "Why?"
bsms is online now  
post #29 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 12:38 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: California
Posts: 811
• Horses: 2
I thought it was really interesting that they had captured some of the horses from an HMA in Idaho, then returned them to the range several years later.

They said that the mares were given PZP2, it was 100% effective.

Of course, the talk is still going for a short amt of time this morning, so other interesting stuff to learn.
Filou is offline  
post #30 of 82 Old 07-10-2019, 05:14 PM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,129
• Horses: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriF View Post
This happens everyday to prey animals. Predators have to eat too. So do you suggest that we eliminate all predators because you don't want to see anything die that way?
Nope, not at all. You missed my point, which was the predators are not a 'humane solution' as some suggest... people that would prefer horses be hunted by predators for population control rather than a bullet tend to not realize that 'nature' is not always humane or kind, and that most prey animals suffer greatly. Not to mention that a release of predators into mustang habitat is also the release of predators into ranch land, and is not likely to happen anytime soon.
COWCHICK77, bsms, Knave and 1 others like this.
SilverMaple is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
blm , bureau of land management , hilton boise idaho , july10-2019 , wild horses

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome